The Nature of God
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14-09-2013, 05:08 AM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2013 05:11 AM by DLJ.)
RE: The Nature of God
So the gist is that a god can't be perfect if it makes imperfect things.

Therefore, gods are human inventions.

It doesn't follow.

Maybe the novice god took time to become perfect.
There's another universe somewhere where he/she/it got it right.

Then, wondering what to do about the prototype (our universe) the god created another perfect being to come and sort things out; take away earlier sins.

I bet you never realised that Jesus took away god's mistakes too.

Jesus's sacrifice made god's imperfect creation perfect again thus making god perfect.
That's why nothing bad ever happens and no one commits ...

...

I'll get my coat.

Weeping

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14-09-2013, 05:23 AM
RE: The Nature of God
(14-09-2013 05:06 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(14-09-2013 04:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  The non-existent is unknowable? Sure, I'll buy that.

How to disprove something that many people called undisprovable and unfalsifiable?

Calling something undisprovable and unfalsifiable doesn't make it so.

The theistic gods of Christianity and Islam have been shown to be logically impossible, though a deistic god is not falsified, just unnecessary.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-09-2013, 05:26 AM
RE: The Nature of God
(14-09-2013 04:16 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 08:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You can stop at "a time".
Spacetime began when this universe started.
Anything referencing those dimensions with respect to a deity, are meaningless.

So who or what used the concept of time before humans?

Why is that even interesting?
The dimension of time exists whether or not there are minds to apprehend it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-09-2013, 05:44 AM
RE: The Nature of God
(14-09-2013 05:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-09-2013 04:16 AM)I and I Wrote:  So who or what used the concept of time before humans?

Why is that even interesting?
The dimension of time exists whether or not there are minds to apprehend it.

pleasejesus etc. response:
how do you know / prove it / were you there?

absols response:
how to ur knowing the real being bc u value objective

Dodgy

It's only just occured to me... the difference between KC and theword, pleasejesus etc.
i.e. the reason some get hugely positive rep counts and some get negative:

The Nature of KC is capital letters.

Yes

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14-09-2013, 07:39 AM
 
RE: The Nature of God
(14-09-2013 05:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-09-2013 05:06 AM)Mike Wrote:  How to disprove something that many people called undisprovable and unfalsifiable?

Calling something undisprovable and unfalsifiable doesn't make it so.

The theistic gods of Christianity and Islam have been shown to be logically impossible, though a deistic god is not falsified, just unnecessary.

But when the deist describe their god as one and singular, I have the feelings that they're just making up their concepts about god and I'm not sure if the deist god is indeed exist even though it is undisprovable and unfalsifiable. How could a higher being is one or many whereas they haven't seen one? Consider Maybe it's not one or many or we will never know, thus their nature are unknowable or to be more precise, there are high probabilities that their god/gods aren't exist.
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14-09-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: The Nature of God
(14-09-2013 04:16 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 08:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You can stop at "a time".
Spacetime began when this universe started.
Anything referencing those dimensions with respect to a deity, are meaningless.

So who or what used the concept of time before humans?

No one and nothing. We've already been through this, Idiot Squared. Time did not start running when "who or what" thought one day "Oh. There must be a dimension called spacetime". Spacetime as a unity was not even recognized until Einstein in the 20th Century. By your idiot logic, there was no spacetime until Einstein came along.
Please crawl back into your Idiot hole. Your assertion with no evidence is complete bullshit. But for someone with no education, who can neither spell correctly, nor write a correct sentence in English, such idiot garbage is to be expected. Don't you have more threads about Jews and Syria conspiracies to start ? Get busy.
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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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14-09-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: The Nature of God
(14-09-2013 05:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Jesus's sacrifice made god's imperfect creation perfect again thus making god perfect.
That's why nothing bad ever happens and no one commits ...

...

I'll get my coat.

Weeping

Seems legit man, thanks haha
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01-10-2013, 06:45 AM
RE: The Nature of God
(11-09-2013 01:07 PM)Shawnzy Wrote:  I was thinking about the creation story in the Bible today. Many Christians say that we were created so god could share his love with humans and we would enter into a relationship with him.

Personally, i see a big flaw in this. In Christianity, they believe that Yahweh is the most perfect being to ever exist. To them, he fulfills all the requirements of a god (omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence). And not only that but he is morally 'perfect' and just in all his ways no matter what.

But what really bothered me was the fact that a perfectly whole god had to make anything at all. Christians believe that before we were created there was nothing else as far as the universe in concerned. The most perfect state of being would be a time when only god existed. If he is the perfect god that Christians claim him to be, the best state of being HAS to be a time when only he exists, since to bring anything else less perfect into the equation (like angels or humans), would put a huge black stain on his existence, since we are not perfect. So, this means that god made existence/the universe less perfect by binging us into it, which to me completely contradicts his nature.

Also, why would a perfect god feel like he has to share love with us? Isn't the perfect god perfectly whole on his own? I don't see at all how sacrificing that amount of quality in human imperfection could possibly make him more whole/satisfied, and I don't see how anything else could make him more whole since he is already in perfection. To me, this is evidence that Yahweh is an invention of humans, because of how shamefully anthropomorphized he is (like him having so many emotional properties in common with humans) He couldn't possibly even want or need love if he is god. He shouldn't want anything right?

I'm curious to see what you guys think of this. It's still a pretty fresh thought in my mind. Please point out any flaws i may have in my thinking. Consider

This reminds me of a conversation I had with someone on a different forum a couple of weeks ago. She said that God gave us free will so that we could truly love. I asked her whether she meant so that we could truly love each other or God. I was hoping she'd say the former. While I wouldn't consider it a compelling argument, I could at least see it as the basis for some defense of free will. Sadly, she said so we could truly love God.

I cannot see how someone takes that view of God and manages to tack on the adjective "omnibenevolent" afterward. Lets walk through that: God wants love, but he doesn't want it to be robotic and programmed, so he gives us free will. Now, we're free to commit genocides on each other, but hey, at least some of use truly love him. Also, add into the mix things we can't control, like Tay Sachs. So, he creates a race of people that suffer in ways they cannot control, and are free to be terrible to each other, but that's all just part of what it takes for some of us to truly love him.

That doesn't paint a picture of omnibenevolence; it's narcissism, capriciousness, and depraved indifference.
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01-10-2013, 05:09 PM
RE: The Nature of God
[/quote]

I cannot see how someone takes that view of God and manages to tack on the adjective "omnibenevolent" afterward. Lets walk through that: God wants love, but he doesn't want it to be robotic and programmed, so he gives us free will. Now, we're free to commit genocides on each other, but hey, at least some of use truly love him. Also, add into the mix things we can't control, like Tay Sachs. So, he creates a race of people that suffer in ways they cannot control, and are free to be terrible to each other, but that's all just part of what it takes for some of us to truly love him.

[/quote]

Aww, you get me totally Thumbsup

And we don't REALLY have all the free will that most christians talk about. We're physical beings in a physical universe who cannot operate outside of the laws in our universe. We're also constantly bombarded by things we don't 'choose' in our free will like natural disasters, accidents, and the thousands of other conflicts we'd avoid if we could.
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01-10-2013, 08:38 PM
RE: The Nature of God
I think the idea is that before the "fall of Adam", everything was perfect.

But that's illogical in itself, because if everything was perfect, how could Adam commit a sin?

Its a good job it is all bullshit.

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