The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
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21-06-2011, 06:26 PM
 
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
hughsie,

You could always say there is another explanation as yet undiscovered but then you contradict yourself because you are claiming you have to be God all-knowing to all things to know for sure. This is disingenuous because let's say you knew all things except one last thing, you would still hold out that it could give you some other explanation.

It is enough to go with the preponderance of evidency beyond reasonable doubt of trillions of causes in nature and no hard evidence of something from nothing to know that nature need a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space. This is a fact. The evidence leads to the conclusion. So it is illogical to say there is another possibility than a cause for the universe. The cause for the universe is demanded because of the evidence of nature.

Your other issue is about common grace. Everyone has received common grace so even if they have never heard of Jesus that common grace makes them responsible because they have a spirit of God-consciousness, therefore they are without excuse. If they truly worshiped God they would accept God's Son when given the word of God. All things sum up in Christ so the person is still saved by the special grace of the gospel even though they have received yet only common grace. It's clear God wants to be in His creation and does it realistically.
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21-06-2011, 06:27 PM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(21-06-2011 05:47 PM)Parture Wrote:  They worshiped another god. Those 3000 killed eternally rejected God so their death was necessary.

If this was an actual real life discussion, this would be the point where I knock you out. You promote the death of fellow human beings if they don't believe in your fairy tale? And in this case you promote the death of children, who haven't even reached an age to consider ideologies or beliefs?

Go fuck yourself, you sadistic prick. I hope you drink the Kool-Aid in the near future so you and your god can blow each other in an imaginary cloud city.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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21-06-2011, 06:36 PM
 
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
Buddy Christ,

Due to the exponential progression of conscience such things as happened when 3000 were killed are not done today. Hence the new covenant as we are no longer under the old covenant. Those were barbaric times and barbaric measures were needed. Even though you reject Christ you are not as barbaric as back then so you do not need to be killed right now. Though you are close to being that barbaric punching people out who don't share your twisted mind. You can live out your life, be resurrected to God's Throne and then cast into Hell.

Why were some tribes the children killed in Canaan? Because generation after generation they continued to practice human sacrifices. Israel originally killed the father, later they realized that was not enough. Then the women and children. Think how evil it is to engage in human sacrifices and child sacrifices. That's what Israel was up against in these tribes that kept attacking Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself. These evil tribes of Canaan also worshiped the golden calf.
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21-06-2011, 06:37 PM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
Parture,

If you spoke to anyone who studied philosophy then you would know that the whole 'nature of truth' issue isn't some whacked out idea I just thought up, its been around as long as philosophy has. Try reading Descartes.

You have totally dodged my second point so I will repeat it on the off chance that you mis-understood it as opposed to purposely ignored it.

You said that, to be a valid possibility as our creator, a God has to be accessible.

Quote:God must be accessible

You said that God must have appeared to people in human form.

Quote:Christianity is personal, because the gods of Islam and Hinduism do not reveal themselves personally like Jesus did entering His creation.

Does this mean that BEFORE God was accessible he didn't exist?
Does this mean that BEFORE God appeared in human form he didn't exist?

By YOUR OWN CLAIMS it must do.

If you have written something you didn't mean by mistake or the meaning isn't as clear as you aimed it to be or if I have just mis-understood then JUST SAY IT, don't ignore the point.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-06-2011, 06:42 PM
 
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
hughsie,

He is a realistic God. If He is going to be the perfect sacrifice then it is a once-for-all sacrifice. That means He enters His creation in His first coming then wants to return in His second coming when man is nearly destroying himself.

Now that the religions of the world are fully developed they would be globally accessible. So there is really only 3 choices and really only one that makes sense since God is personal.
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21-06-2011, 06:49 PM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
Yep, thought so. You chose to purposely ignore the question. I'm gonna take that as a compliment as every other question you have ignored (and there have been so so many) has been because you have no answer.

Just on the off chance you STILL don't understand my embarrassingly simple questions I'll simplify them again.

Does this mean that BEFORE God was accessible he didn't exist?
Does this mean that BEFORE God appeared in human form he didn't exist?

JUST GIVE A TWO WORD ANSWER, NO EXPLANATION. ANSWER YES/YES, YES/NO, NO/YES, NO/NO

Actually even easier;

A - YES/YES
B - YES/NO
C - NO/YES
D - NO/NO

JUST ANSWER A B C or D

PS. If by this point you have forgotten the questions here they are again;

Does this mean that BEFORE God was accessible he didn't exist?
Does this mean that BEFORE God appeared in human form he didn't exist?

Remember, A B C or D, NOTHING MORE!

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-06-2011, 07:03 PM
 
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
hughsie,

Of course God existed and of course God was not accessible to the extent Jesus was in Person in His first coming. This matter of accessibility only applies to the world today because the religions have had not yet had thousands of years to develop.
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21-06-2011, 07:04 PM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(21-06-2011 06:16 PM)Parture Wrote:  Monk,

You and your atheism brethren are the most destructive under your goal of natural selection killing 30 million with Hitler, 40 million with Stalin and 60 million with Mao.

Whereas God when He kills, He uses it as an absolutely necessary last resort when all else is failed. When the sin can be tolerated no more and they shall never repent, let them be removed so they can stop corrupting others.

Hitler wasn't an atheist you idiot. There are THOUSANDS of pictures of him in church, his own books say he's at least, deist.. The nazi's even had to swear an oath to a creator. In Russia, the head of the country was a god. The reason is because the basic feature of communist nations is totalitarianism which is, by it's nature, violent and oppressive. I don't think that is what would happen if a majority (or all people) gave up religion. The reason is because many studies (see Zuckerman, 2006) show that countries with high levels of atheism and agnosticism are the most healthy, have the least amount of crime, etc. Once again. Epic fucking failure.

If you read Mein Kampf, you would've known Nazism was a religion of it's own. Read the last sentence of the second chapter of the first volume. Hitler, through "resisting the jew", thought he was doing god's work. Even if he wasn't a christian, with all of that Nordic pagan symbolism, how could you think Hitler was a possible atheist? You are completely full of shit.

Christians have murdered people for believing the world was round. Christians have butchered Native Americans. Christians even gave those same Indians smallpox infected blankets as a 'gift'. I could go on forever.

Most of Europe is Atheist. Do you see their society falling apart? Why are godless countries so peaceful, and ultra religious more violent?

If god exists, why did he curse Christians with sub zero IQs.
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21-06-2011, 07:07 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2011 07:10 PM by Hughsie.)
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(21-06-2011 07:03 PM)Parture Wrote:  hughsie,

Of course God existed and of course God was not accessible to the extent Jesus was in Person in His first coming. This matter of accessibility only applies to the world today because the religions have had not yet had thousands of years to develop.

Finally we get an answer! Thank GOD Wink

Thank you, that was all I was asking for, now I understand your views that bit better!

If you actually remember this and apply the same concept of reading a question and answering it then you may find it easier to engage people on here and people may be that bit less hostile.

Just a piece of advice.
Parture,

Even if you leave out the dubiousness of the claim that Hitler was an atheist and just go with it for a bit it is still too simplistic to say that he killed BECAUSE of his atheism. I would never claim that priests who abuse children do it because of their religion, I would claim that it is because they are warped, perverted assholes. Same concept applies to Hitler.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-06-2011, 07:10 PM
 
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
Monk,

Of course Hitler was an atheist for he lived by the atheist code of natural selection. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it's a duck.

He spoke against the Church and reviled Christianity. I have lots of quotes. He despised Jesus Christ,

http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?2901

Stalin was an atheist. Mao was an atheist. They did not believe God existed. Hitler just as well by his actions believed God did not exist.

Christians never hurt anyone for the Holy Spirit restrains us and cleanses our conscience. Jesus would never do those things you say, so those in Christ would not either.

So while atheists love killing hundreds of millions of people, Christians never killed anyone. Otherwise they would not be Christian but fake Christians.
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