The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
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20-06-2011, 10:35 PM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(20-06-2011 10:31 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(20-06-2011 10:24 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-06-2011 09:53 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I am genuinely curious. Why are you here?

Personally, I'd let run for a while. Who knows what crazy-ass useful shit this just might churn up. Wink

Never meant to imply I was considering closing the thread. It can run for as long as people want it to. No hidden meaning behind the question, and no ulterior motives. Just curiosity is all.

Hopefully he answers you, he definitely doesn't want to answer most of us.

"Do what though wilt shall be the whole of the Law." - The Book of the Law
"There is no God but man" - Liber OZ

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20-06-2011, 11:00 PM
 
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
Buddy Christ,

What I am saying is that the disciples truly believed they spent several occasions with Jesus over those 40 days in various group settings.

Therefore, if it is not true, you would need to find a naturalistic explanation. Nobody in the past two thousand years could find one.

You see only in Christianity does God manifest Himself in the flesh, dies on the cross and then appears 3 days later.

I don't know of any other religion that does that. Very unique! Therefore, this is God's redemptive design. He is choosing a people for Himself whosoever is willing to repent to the cross as helpless sinners to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior shall be regenerated and given eternal life.

Praise the Lord!

Those who do not will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire consciously aware of their wrong choice for forever. How truly sad for you.
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20-06-2011, 11:14 PM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(20-06-2011 11:00 PM)Parture Wrote:  Buddy Christ,

What I am saying is that the disciples truly believed they spent several occasions with Jesus over those 40 days in various group settings.

Therefore, if it is not true, you would need to find a naturalistic explanation. Nobody in the past two thousand years could find one.

You see only in Christianity does God manifest Himself in the flesh, dies on the cross and then appears 3 days later.

I don't know of any other religion that does that. Very unique! Therefore, this is God's redemptive design. He is choosing a people for Himself whosoever is willing to repent to the cross as helpless sinners to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior shall be regenerated and given eternal life.

Praise the Lord!

Those who do not will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire consciously aware of their wrong choice for forever. How truly sad for you.

The whole question boils down to why?

Why would your god create man and allow the fall to happen? Why would he then condemn to hell for all eternity men who were doomed to sin and corruption by their very nature? Why would this God reveal himself to so few people at such a time in the past when these sorts of claims of dying and rising gods were common? Why did this God never reveal himself to Huge portions of the world's population such as China and India? What about all of these people that have never heard?

There is no evidence that the Christian God is real or true and no evidence that Jesus was a God-Man who was an incarnation of YHWH. There is just as much evidence of the God Osiris and his resurrection from eyewitness testimony.

Again, why aren't you answering my other objections? Do you not know?

And especially why do you resort to Ad Hominem? I think I know.

You don't have answers to these objections, instead you ignore them. The only reason you're here is to try and reinforce you're fragile beliefs.

"Do what though wilt shall be the whole of the Law." - The Book of the Law
"There is no God but man" - Liber OZ

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20-06-2011, 11:28 PM
 
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
Robertus_,

Why would God create? Because it exalts the glory of God and brings in fellowship for God and people. It's wonderful! Why would you want to have children? Virtually the same difference.

God doesn't want to treat people like robots, for then they would not be made in God's image. Hence, the fall must be free to commit to have true free will. God wants fellowship with free willed beings made in His image.

Why condemn you to Hell? Because you have the free choice to be eternally separated from God and that is your choice. Again, you would not be made in His image if you didn't have this choice. C.S. Lewis said you lock yourself in Hell from the inside because ultimately at the end of the day it is what you want since you refuse the salvation through Christ.

God reveals Himself in realistic time. First to the nation of Israel to show no man keep the law then to the world through the gospel of salvation showing only Jesus could keep the law since He is God's Son. How unique this is for there are no resurrections before Christ and none that walked the earth that claimed to be the creator of the universe. Nobody has ever seen these gods you speak of and there is no eyewitness testimony to them. But we have 45 sources for Jesus with 150 years of His death. He is the most documented person in antiquity. In fact, you can take any ten figures combined and Jesus has more sources.

The common grace experienced by those who never heard of Jesus could be saved if they accepted the God of the mountains and the stars, for surely if they were presented the word of God of Jesus Christ they would accept him as their Lord and Savior.

Since you are unable to find a naturalistic explanation for the eyewitness testimony of the disciples in various group settings then realize Jesus is God and salvation is only through Him. Praise the Lord!

The question you should ask yourself is why do you keep avoiding this proof?
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20-06-2011, 11:42 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2011 11:45 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(20-06-2011 10:31 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Never meant to imply I was considering closing the thread

Never meant to imply you were. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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21-06-2011, 02:15 AM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(20-06-2011 11:00 PM)Parture Wrote:  What I am saying is that the disciples truly believed they spent several occasions with Jesus over those 40 days in various group settings.

Therefore, if it is not true, you would need to find a naturalistic explanation. Nobody in the past two thousand years could find one.
How come the burden of proof shifts to the ones denying the claim? As Buddy said: "the Bible is one of the most inaccurate, contradicting, mistranslated, and altered books in the history of mankind." How would you know for certain that the bible is any more reliable and accurate in telling the story of Jesus than the hieroglyphs are in telling the story of Osiris's resurrection?

(20-06-2011 11:00 PM)Parture Wrote:  You see only in Christianity does God manifest Himself in the flesh, dies on the cross and then appears 3 days later.

I don't know of any other religion that does that. Very unique! Therefore, this is God's redemptive design. He is choosing a people for Himself whosoever is willing to repent to the cross as helpless sinners to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior shall be regenerated and given eternal life.

Praise the Lord!

*yawn*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPYj4HPudCk&t=4m2s

(20-06-2011 11:00 PM)Parture Wrote:  Those who do not will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire consciously aware of their wrong choice for forever. How truly sad for you.

*snore*
Hmm, oh. Hey! I'd like to ask you the same question as Stark Raving, out of curiosity. Why are you here anyway? Trying to convert people or something?

The God excuse: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. "God did it." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. - George Carlin

Whenever I'm asked "What if you're wrong?", I always show the asker this video: http://youtu.be/iClejS8vWjo Screw Pascal's wager.
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21-06-2011, 02:19 AM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
Easy one step process to refute the crap parture said! Go to Iron Chariots Wiki!

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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21-06-2011, 02:35 AM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
(20-06-2011 08:30 PM)Parture Wrote:  Robertus,

Nobody has ever created anything from nothing, that which does not exist. That which does not exist can't create anything. It doesn't exist. That which does not exist can't cause anything. It doesn't exist.

And what do you think the bible is? God created man from dirt. Since your 'god' created everything, who created god? And please don't say 'god has always existed' because that is utter nonsense. Something that was created, was created by something else, and so forth using the logic of a christian.

I won't get into the fact there are 2 different creation stories, which seems to have been written by 2 different people (yes, I said people)
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21-06-2011, 02:52 AM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
This thread helps me to understand how anyone could read the Bible and actually believe anything in it is true. They have to be completely blind to all the logical contradictions "God" presents and be able to present only the arguments that bolster their viewpoints while ignoring the arguments that don't. Huge leaps of assumption help a lot, too. "There had to be a creator", "Therefore it had to be the Christian God of the New Testament" does not automatically follow unless you start with an unsupported presumption. "My car was stolen last night." "It had to have been Russian spies who wanted it to deliver a nuclear bomb to CIA headquarters" makes about as much logical sense as the 4-step argument offered here.

WHY does the "creator" (if there is one, which is far from certain) have to be the Christian God instead of some other source? The only explanation I've seen you give so far is that Jesus was "unique" which you then PRESUME means he couldn't possibly be fictional. Have you ever read a Dr. Suess book? Those were unique, too. Unique does not = true. And I won't bother going into just how many previous Gods and sons of Gods with similar histories and characteristics predated Jesus, rendering your "unique" argument completely false, since it doesn't matter if Jesus was unique or not. You've completely failed to explain why your particular God has to be the creator of the universe as opposed to little green men from Mars (for which there are thousands of eyewitness reports by people who swear they actually saw them- how could they be lying about what they saw if they actually went to the police and put their testimony on record for all to see? They couldn't possibly have been mistaken, could they? And they certainly couldn't have been jumping on the bandwagon after hearing of others making similar claims, could they? And I don't suppose any of them would be capable of repeating a story told to them by someone else and then embellish it by claiming that they witnessed the event themselves, could they?)

You cannot presume anything written in the Bible is true. You also cannot presume that the Christian God is the only possible creator of the universe, if such a creator is even necessary for the universe to exist. You present your presumptions as evidence. You don't even understand what evidence is.

The way to see by Faith, is to shut the eye of Reason. - Ben Franklin
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21-06-2011, 03:10 AM
RE: The New 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
The problem is that Christians forget there are many many many many religions/gods/myths that pre-date them by 1000 years or more. When you point that out, they make up excuses to why theirs are wrong and Christianity is the right way.

Look at Horus, the Egyptian 'god', ie: similar story about it to Jesus, ie: virgin birth, resurrection etc etc. Christians are stuck on themselves, it's arrogance parading around.
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