The New Age Atheist
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08-12-2013, 04:12 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
This is the first time I've come across this particular stall of yours Gordie, asking what god is. I call it a stall because the question has no merit towards furthering conversation because if the definition doesn't suit your spiritual viewpoint it most likely will be disregarded, or be beaten to death by presuppositions and your brand of apologetics.

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08-12-2013, 04:21 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(08-12-2013 03:49 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 02:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  And your evidence of this is what? I reject your definition as incoherent.

See, you're not really capable of debate on this. First you ask for evidence (which indicates you understand the definition), then you say the definition is incoherent.

You contradict yourself. You are the less rational and logical. You lose. Sorry. You shouldn't think this reflects negatively on you as a person. You're a good man. Laughat

Sorry, Eddie, a definition is not evidence. I ask for evidence of whatever god you wish to define.

You always, always fail to do so.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
This.
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08-12-2013, 06:24 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
i will try one last time in this thread. i will be as clear and direct as i can.

i define god as a mind which has always existed. it was neither created nor is it possible for it to ever end.

can an atheist believe in this type of mind?

excuse my writingbim using my phone.
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08-12-2013, 06:26 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(08-12-2013 06:24 PM)Gordon Wrote:  i will try one last time in this thread. i will be as clear and direct as i can.

i define god as a mind which has always existed. it was neither created nor is it possible for it to ever end.

can an atheist believe in this type of mind?

excuse my writingbim using my phone.

I do not since there is no evidence for it, there is no reason to be believe that something that complicated just is, or that forever means anything.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2013, 06:28 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(08-12-2013 06:24 PM)Gordon Wrote:  i define god as a mind which has always existed. it was neither created nor is it possible for it to ever end.

can an atheist believe in this type of mind?

Insofar as it's possible for you to express that definition, sure.

Why would anyone believe that?

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08-12-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(08-12-2013 06:24 PM)Gordon Wrote:  i will try one last time in this thread. i will be as clear and direct as i can.

i define god as a mind which has always existed. it was neither created nor is it possible for it to ever end.

can an atheist believe in this type of mind?

excuse my writingbim using my phone.

I have a tendency to believe anything that is supported by enough evidence.
So...yes.

Can you produce some (evidence) ?

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08-12-2013, 06:36 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(08-12-2013 02:42 PM)Gordon Wrote:  You're not addressing me, but I wanted to take a stab at this:

I see what you are saying. For instance, dark matter exists, but we don't know what it is or how to understand its presence. Telepathy has been proven scientifically, but we don't know what it is, or how it is the mind could work that way (same with precognition). The placebo effect is a scientific fact, but we don't have any idea how it could be.

There are strange things in this universe. The universe could simply have within it spiritual entities, and we just don't understand how it could be. We don't even understand how gravity can be or how subatomic particles can paradoxically behave as two different things at the same time (wave and particle).

So, there could be spirits without a God. The problem is the cosmological argument. It's a hard argument to side step when you're talking about the physical world, it becomes ten times harder to get around when you're talking about the spiritual world.

It says that there had to be a first cause or nothing would ever be caused, and that cause, itself, must be uncaused. The spirit world, and the paranormal phenomena, don't seem to have any physical basis, and yet they have to do with consciousness and mind. There's only two possibilities: the mind always existed, or the mind was created. If it always existed, that fits our definition of God (an eternal mind), if it was created, then it seems logical that a mind would have had to create it; that creator being what we typically think of as fitting the description of God.

So, an atheist can believe in spirits and deny the existence of God, but it's not a logical platform. It's not rational. It doesn't equate or add up, so to speak.

I'm sorry, I'm not following. You're saying that the spiritual world has no place in the physical world, but it has to do with the mind....so God had to create us? I don't see how the very existence of a spiritual world has to do with the mind always existing or being created. I feel like you're jumping a few steps. Fill me in.

Gordon Wrote:
Fat Mac Wrote:Hypothetically speaking, let's say I think all the religions we know are wrong, so I'm an atheist. But I research heavily into ghosts and decide there's enough evidence through EVPs and all of that to convince me that ghosts exist. Hell, maybe i even had an experience with them myself, who knows. But just because I don't think Yahweh, Allah, or Zeus exist does not stop be from being convinced by what I think to be hard evidence, to also believe that ghosts are real.

The concept may pose as ridiculous for you, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be conceivable. In your mind, you put all these concepts in one basket and you say it's preposterous that you could only take one thing out of that basket. Which I fully understand. But it's really personal opinion, and I don't think it's that preposterous.

Here you make a good point. Only I think you're using a different classification of "atheism." And this is my question to all:

Is an atheist someone who rejects any notion of God, or is an atheist someone who rejects the known religious notions of God?

Option C: It's just somebody who doesn't believe in a god.
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08-12-2013, 06:44 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 06:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The New Age Atheist
(08-12-2013 06:28 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 06:24 PM)Gordon Wrote:  i define god as a mind which has always existed. it was neither created nor is it possible for it to ever end.

can an atheist believe in this type of mind?

Insofar as it's possible for you to express that definition, sure.

Why would anyone believe that?

Girly blames Hofmann. Blush

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08-12-2013, 07:00 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 05:35 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  With as long as you have been here you have seen many different people with as many points of view where the only thing they had in common was a lack of a belief in a god or gods. Lets take my favorite example of a credulous atheist, Luminon is a member here and is into all kinds of Woo-based pseudo-science everything from astral projection to energy fields in the body that are undetectable. None of that revokes him from being an atheist despite the fact that 9 out of 10 other atheists would think he was batshit crazy for believing in all that.
It's surprising how difficult it is to get this point across to people. I don't believe, I experience things hands-on. I just have very unusual hands. Or the whole nerve system, it's inborn. I'm hard-wired to perceive woo, so the point of whether I believe is moot. An experience is not something to believe or disbelieve, but to investigate. You have to find some other really credulous atheist Wink

But besides that, yeah, as far as you're concerned, I'm *basically* an atheist. I wrote and defended my Bachelor's thesis in praise of American Atheism. It has Sean Faircloth and Aron Ra in it. It gives a good summary on what goes on with you atheist guys to the local academic community. Believe me, I'm spreading the awareness (rehashing the topic) whenever a teacher wants an assignment from me.
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