The New Age Atheist
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06-12-2013, 10:51 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(06-12-2013 10:44 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  You can totally believe in ghosts, spirits, reincarnation, big foot, and Obama birth certificate fraud and still be an atheist.

Hilarious that the Obama birth certificate fraud is listed with the other crazy stuff
I think I just pee'd a little.
Laughat

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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06-12-2013, 11:42 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2013 11:46 PM by Gordon.)
RE: The New Age Atheist
(06-12-2013 10:44 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  No. Technically, atheism just refers to the belief or lack of belief in gods, nothing else. You can totally believe in ghosts, spirits, reincarnation, big foot, and Obama birth certificate fraud and still be an atheist. All atheism requires is that you don't believe in any gods.

Now, I can understand your confusion. A lot of atheists (most of them?) consider themselves rationalists, and rationalists wouldn't believe in any of those other things either, but putting all that under the term "atheist" is over-defining the term.

That's a very cogent reply. I appreciate that (See, I'm doing my damndest to be a new man, damnit! [Image: angry-smiley.gif])

There's only one problem with that. Let's say reincarnation is true (and there is quite a bit of evidence for it). That would mean that our mind separates from our body, and takes up residence in the body of another. That means there is 0 explanation for our mind, because the physical universe shows no evidence of being capable of being the cause of that kind of entity. It stretches credulity to even compare the two (mind and matter) as being the same thing at all.

That puts "mind" outside the entire causal system of the universe. That means mind has either always existed, or it was created. It seems silly to consider it as being created in any rational sense of the word; therefore, it must exist eternally.

That, my friend, is the definition of a monistic concept of God.

You simply cannot be an atheist and believe in a disembodied mind. These days you probably want that compromise, given all the evidence for reincarnation, telepathy, and precognition, but it doesn't work.

Mind you, and I will grant you this, a monistic God is nothing like the God of the Bible, and it is only kind of like the God Jesus describes--unless you read the Gospel of Thomas and other Gnostic texts. So, you can still be an atheist against the God of the Bible, if you even have to these days.

My point is this: Atheism rests on a foundation of wet sand no different than Roman Christianity. So come away from it. It's time to pursue holiness and the psychic art you have within you. [Image: 31%20(1).gif]

You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Drinking Beverage
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07-12-2013, 12:11 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(06-12-2013 11:42 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 10:44 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  No. Technically, atheism just refers to the belief or lack of belief in gods, nothing else. You can totally believe in ghosts, spirits, reincarnation, big foot, and Obama birth certificate fraud and still be an atheist. All atheism requires is that you don't believe in any gods.

Now, I can understand your confusion. A lot of atheists (most of them?) consider themselves rationalists, and rationalists wouldn't believe in any of those other things either, but putting all that under the term "atheist" is over-defining the term.

That's a very cogent reply. I appreciate that (See, I'm doing my damndest to be a new man, damnit! [Image: angry-smiley.gif])

There's only one problem with that. Let's say reincarnation is true (and there is quite a bit of evidence for it). That would mean that our mind separates from our body, and takes up residence in the body of another. That means there is 0 explanation for our mind, because the physical universe shows no evidence of being capable of being the cause of that kind of entity. It stretches credulity to even compare the two (mind and matter) as being the same thing at all.

That puts "mind" outside the entire causal system of the universe. That means mind has either always existed, or it was created. It seems silly to consider it as being created in any rational sense of the word; therefore, it must exist eternally.

That, my friend, is the definition of a monistic concept of God.

You simply cannot be an atheist and believe in a disembodied mind. These days you probably want that compromise, given all the evidence for reincarnation, telepathy, and precognition, but it doesn't work.

Mind you, and I will grant you this, a monistic God is nothing like the God of the Bible, and it is only kind of like the God Jesus describes--unless you read the Gospel of Thomas and other Gnostic texts. So, you can still be an atheist against the God of the Bible, if you even have to these days.

My point is this: Atheism rests on a foundation of wet sand no different than Roman Christianity. So come away from it. It's time to pursue holiness and the psychic art you have within you. [Image: 31%20(1).gif]

You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Drinking Beverage
The mind, brain, and body are one. The shackles fall off without leaving the wrist, you are free in bondage. When you get that you will understand.
but yeah, atheists can believe whatever mumbo jumbo they want but must revoke their license if they start to believe in god(s)

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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07-12-2013, 01:48 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2013 01:51 AM by Gordon.)
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 12:11 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  The mind, brain, and body are one. The shackles fall off without leaving the wrist, you are free in bondage. When you get that you will understand.
but yeah, atheists can believe whatever mumbo jumbo they want but must revoke their license if they start to believe in god(s)

I love this. In the past (like ten years ago), no self-respecting atheist would have been anything other than a secular materialist. Now you all can believe in ghosts. Rolleyes

I am not laughing. Or at least I'm not saying I don't believe in ghosts; I'm just flabbergasted that atheism is already beginning to collapse under its own weight--just like the Christian Church.

I blame the modern world. We have discovered too much strange Censored to go on acting like everything is deterministic material physics.

Well, hell, for all I know, maybe I'm an atheist, too. I mean, what is the god you don't believe in? I may not believe in him either. Blink

What I do believe in is this:

We are creations of an Ultimate Being.
We are like its dream images, like the dream people you create when you dream.
We have a spiritual plane where our thougts create a universe--each one of us does.
Our purpose is to be happy, not so much here, but there.
We are incarnated here to go through suffering to learn wisdom so we can create a universe where we experience joy. Why?
Because we are a modality of the Ultimate Being. Its joy only comes from the joy we create.
If we create a hell, the Ultimate Source expereinces that hell.
If we create a hell, we are reincarnated to learn more wisdom, so we might get it right the next time we die and wake up on our spiritual plane.

Do I think it matters if one is an atheist? Frankly, no. Belief in God is not a way in which we "worship" god. We worship god through the practice of our psychic skills, through living a holy life, both of which lead to the wisdom necessary to create joy in our individual universes within the Ultimate Source's multiverse.

So, as you can imagine, I'm thrilled to hear you can be an atheist and believe in ghosts. Shocking
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07-12-2013, 05:35 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 01:48 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 12:11 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  The mind, brain, and body are one. The shackles fall off without leaving the wrist, you are free in bondage. When you get that you will understand.
but yeah, atheists can believe whatever mumbo jumbo they want but must revoke their license if they start to believe in god(s)

I love this. In the past (like ten years ago), no self-respecting atheist would have been anything other than a secular materialist. Now you all can believe in ghosts. Rolleyes

I am not laughing. Or at least I'm not saying I don't believe in ghosts; I'm just flabbergasted that atheism is already beginning to collapse under its own weight--just like the Christian Church.

I blame the modern world. We have discovered too much strange Censored to go on acting like everything is deterministic material physics.

Well, hell, for all I know, maybe I'm an atheist, too. I mean, what is the god you don't believe in? I may not believe in him either. Blink

What I do believe in is this:

We are creations of an Ultimate Being.
We are like its dream images, like the dream people you create when you dream.
We have a spiritual plane where our thougts create a universe--each one of us does.
Our purpose is to be happy, not so much here, but there.
We are incarnated here to go through suffering to learn wisdom so we can create a universe where we experience joy. Why?
Because we are a modality of the Ultimate Being. Its joy only comes from the joy we create.
If we create a hell, the Ultimate Source expereinces that hell.
If we create a hell, we are reincarnated to learn more wisdom, so we might get it right the next time we die and wake up on our spiritual plane.

Do I think it matters if one is an atheist? Frankly, no. Belief in God is not a way in which we "worship" god. We worship god through the practice of our psychic skills, through living a holy life, both of which lead to the wisdom necessary to create joy in our individual universes within the Ultimate Source's multiverse.

So, as you can imagine, I'm thrilled to hear you can be an atheist and believe in ghosts. Shocking

Again you are making unwarranted assumptions. There is no Atheism akin to the catholic church because there is no dogma with atheism, it is very simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. A-theism without-god, anything else takes you to a new group that has positive attributes rather than a single negative. Would this woman in your example be welcomed into a skeptics groups, no she would be laughed out for her unfounded beliefs, and the same with any number of other subgroups that are united for the time being fighting for Secular rights.

With as long as you have been here you have seen many different people with as many points of view where the only thing they had in common was a lack of a belief in a god or gods. Lets take my favorite example of a credulous atheist, Luminon is a member here and is into all kinds of Woo-based pseudo-science everything from astral projection to energy fields in the body that are undetectable. None of that revokes him from being an atheist despite the fact that 9 out of 10 other atheists would think he was batshit crazy for believing in all that.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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07-12-2013, 05:55 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(06-12-2013 08:16 PM)Gordon Wrote:  There was this girl...woman...what have you. She claimed to believe in spirits, ghosts, and contacting the dead, but claimed she was an atheist and that she didn't believe God exists.

So, I simply asked a question... (what?)

I asked her how she could believe in the immortal soul and still be an atheist? Aren't you supposed to believe it's all just dirt to dirt?

I ended up banning her.

Dick. Drinking Beverage

#sigh
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07-12-2013, 06:02 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
"New Age" is an action whereas "atheist" is a reaction. Tongue

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07-12-2013, 06:21 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(06-12-2013 11:42 PM)Gordon Wrote:  ...
See, I'm doing my damndest to be a new man, damnit!
...
given all the evidence for reincarnation, telepathy, and precognition, Laughat
...

Rolleyes

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07-12-2013, 07:25 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 01:48 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 12:11 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  The mind, brain, and body are one. The shackles fall off without leaving the wrist, you are free in bondage. When you get that you will understand.
but yeah, atheists can believe whatever mumbo jumbo they want but must revoke their license if they start to believe in god(s)

I love this. In the past (like ten years ago), no self-respecting atheist would have been anything other than a secular materialist. Now you all can believe in ghosts. Rolleyes

I am not laughing. Or at least I'm not saying I don't believe in ghosts; I'm just flabbergasted that atheism is already beginning to collapse under its own weight--just like the Christian Church.

I blame the modern world. We have discovered too much strange Censored to go on acting like everything is deterministic material physics.

Well, hell, for all I know, maybe I'm an atheist, too. I mean, what is the god you don't believe in? I may not believe in him either. Blink

What I do believe in is this:

We are creations of an Ultimate Being.
We are like its dream images, like the dream people you create when you dream.
We have a spiritual plane where our thougts create a universe--each one of us does.
Our purpose is to be happy, not so much here, but there.
We are incarnated here to go through suffering to learn wisdom so we can create a universe where we experience joy. Why?
Because we are a modality of the Ultimate Being. Its joy only comes from the joy we create.
If we create a hell, the Ultimate Source expereinces that hell.
If we create a hell, we are reincarnated to learn more wisdom, so we might get it right the next time we die and wake up on our spiritual plane.

Do I think it matters if one is an atheist? Frankly, no. Belief in God is not a way in which we "worship" god. We worship god through the practice of our psychic skills, through living a holy life, both of which lead to the wisdom necessary to create joy in our individual universes within the Ultimate Source's multiverse.

So, as you can imagine, I'm thrilled to hear you can be an atheist and believe in ghosts. Shocking
So much stuff there. Look at all the stuff. ugh can't dealBlink I suppose you're welcome to create whatever narrative you like though. Or are you using metaphor to explain what you can't currently explain?

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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07-12-2013, 09:05 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2013 09:12 AM by cheapthrillseaker.)
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 01:48 AM)Gordon Wrote:  I love this. In the past (like ten years ago), no self-respecting atheist would have been anything other than a secular materialist. Now you all can believe in ghosts. Rolleyes

...snip...

So, as you can imagine, I'm thrilled to hear you can be an atheist and believe in ghosts. Shocking

Generalized unwarranted assumptions is your gift, Gordy. It allows you to put people in specific categories and feel that they have their place in the grand scheme of things. Gordy, you confuse atheism with a spiritual entity/enterprise that follows a certain set of rules. And who are these we you keep mentioning about? Not me, no, definitely not. No This is turning into a very strange adaptation of Highlander - you need to find the Source, Duncan! Why? So you can have fucking babies like what you complained about for so many episodes in the TV series? Big frikin deal. So yeah, I didn't mean to stray from the topic back there. What I could be getting at is this: if you think that because one atheist believes in ghosts, that all atheists believe in ghosts, then I can equally posit that if I think the moon is made of cheese, it is, in actuality, made of cheese. NO ONE CAN CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE! AHAH! AHAHAahahaha!... *cough*

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