The New Age Atheist
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13-12-2013, 08:41 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(13-12-2013 08:37 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 08:04 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  What part of starving troll do you guys not understand? He's just gonna come back scratching at the door if you keep leaving him troll treatsTongue Oh and please be careful of bridges, not all the goats made it..the ones they don't tell you about.

Yabut what'll people do if they stop, huh?
Waste time doing something else? Fuck, thats what I do.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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13-12-2013, 08:52 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(13-12-2013 07:04 PM)Luminon Wrote:  My subjective experiences need to be studied qualitatively to generate a theory through inductive reasoning.

Science is based on inductive reasoning, i.e. on the basis of a finite number of observations of X a generalisation about X is formed.

Quote:Inductive reasoning does not need to be evidentiary,

Yes it does. Induction is based on observation. You haven't even reached the point of observation. Your subjective experiences aren't observations of the external world. Your phenomenological experiences count as evidence only about how your subjectivity operates, they say nothing beyond that.

Quote: when the result is not confirmed, it does not mean it's false.

Yes it does. That is what falsification is. You don't understand induction. Every observation that is consistent with hypothesis H confirms H; one single observation that is inconsistent with H falsifies H. In Popperian terms H can never be proven (only verified) but it can be falsified.

Quote:
It's a problem that most skeptics do not know, understand or approve of qualitative research, inductive reasoning and theory formulation as its final result.

Qualitative research does not yield generalised descriptions of anything.

Quote: ...and why would I do that? To uphold my belief?

Yes.

Quote:I form them based on sensory observations, which are value-neutral and undeniable.

Your "sensory observations" like those of everyone else are subject to bias, illusion and error.

Quote:But I am a disciplined self-observer.

No one can escape their subjectivity using discipline--you are trapped in it. You are mistaken about having escaped your subjectivity by your subjectivity.

Quote:I have excluded the subjective,

No you haven't. You can't be because all you are offering is subjective reports of your experience. A phenomenlogical report is entirely subjective--that is all it can be.

Quote:many other people during history independently made similar or identical observations.

So what?

Quote:Imagined? Nope, that would imply intent, desire or fear. I made observations in the age of 4 years, not knowing what it is.

"Imagined" does not imply intentional.

Quote:Illusory? Nope, illusions change a lot and are unreliable. My perception worked all my life without fault. It must be something hard-wired in sensory integration highway of the brain stem.

No, many illusions are reliable.


Quote: Have you tried such a machine personally? I did and it was remarkable. It worked. I could explain the function theoretically, but not within your paradigm.

You are a self-deludued fool.

Quote:Content of dreams? Dreams are already scientifically well researched. There's no work left for me in there. And I'm not very good at remembering dreams anyway.

Perceptual and cognitive illusions are also well-researched so why is that an issue for you? I don't understand why you don't also claim that the fantastic contents of your dreams also demand a scientific paradgm shift.
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14-12-2013, 12:17 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 09:19 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I think you need to steer clear from ghosts if you wish to be taken seriously. Ghosts, hon, by definition is the *spirit* now in another plane of existence. So....things like 'spirit' and 'planes of existence' are getting you dangerously close to admitting to the same factors which make up a god. Just like tarot cards, crystal balls, most anything in the Magic department (ask me- I'm an expert).<SNIP>
I beg to differ. I'll grant you that atheism tends to arise from a questioning of the Ultimate Supernatural and thus tends to lead to a questioning of all supernatural so many atheist are also skeptics. The two don't have to go hand in hand though. I'll also grant you that belief in spirits and other planes of reality could lead you to belief in god. It's a likely progression but again, it isn't a necessary outcome. Suggesting that belief in spirits in alternate plains of existence logically leads to belief in god is no more valid than suggesting that belief in people in this plane of existence leads to belief in some gigantic all-powerful Uber-person.

Developing a belief in the supernatural but not in a deity seems to be the simple way to go. Historically, and currently there are a fair number of cultures that have subscribed to animism, spiritualism or any of a host of other '-isms' that are innately grounded in the supernatural but never lead to a singular ultimate being or even lesser deities.

It seems to be a fair bit more difficult to drop belief in god while retaining belief in the supernatural. On the other hand, skepticism is not the black-and white state that some would have you believe. Even the most hard-headed skeptics retain some degree of superstition, no matter how small and vestigial. It's really a matter of degree, shades of grey with most of us skeptics well over to one side in the pigeon-hole labelled "Disbelieves Everything". I'm an atheist and a skeptic but I do love playing devil's advocate so I figure that if I can rationalize away spirits and alternate planes of existence then somebody who believes in it should be capable of compartmentalizing belief in the supernatural whilst simultaneously ditching the allmighty.

Alternate planes of existence aren't even tricky. We have some pretty serious physicists positing up to eleven dimensions right here and now so it's a pretty short leap from some of those to an alternate plane of reality that we just haven't examined yet. Or if you prefer we have the possibility of alternate universes, all stacked up infinitely deep just a shadow's thickness away.

Spirits are a mite trickier but all that really needs is a disembodied human mind. You'll need a medium to store the mind in and a brain or somesuch for it to be active. Possibly store it on a cellular level of anything living nearby and transmit it via some low-level telepathic field to any sentient mind(s) that wander too close where it can become active using some sort of disseminated computing strategy.

I know, sounds half-assed but what do you expect? The simple way to do it is to simply admit ignorance. "I don't know how ghosts work. Ask me after I'm dead." Scientists have to do it all the time. Take dark matter and dark energy. Please! They've been around as concepts for decades, and we've had reasonably solid evidence of them for years but we still have no idea how they work or what they're made of. Of course scientists will keep prodding it until they do find an explanation, typically several dozen contradictory explanations. You don't have to do that. "I don't know how it works, but it does." is sufficient for belief.

This is treading on ground that's interesting to me so if you'd like to discuss further PM me or start a new thread. This one's going pruney from prolonged immersion in Gordon's dribblings.
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14-12-2013, 12:23 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 12:05 PM)Gordon Wrote:  I am an atheist and I am not an atheist at the same time.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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14-12-2013, 12:30 AM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2013 12:35 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: The New Age Atheist
(13-12-2013 09:59 AM)Gordon Wrote:  So, either you're a lunatic or God exists.

Then it's settled. Chas is indeed a lunatic as you say (or, rather, according to you), and therefore your Gawd doesn't exist. (Thanks, Chas, for your Noble Sacrifice for our sake. Thumbsup ).



Fuck, but was that ever easy. Heh. Cool



.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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14-12-2013, 02:01 AM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2013 02:04 AM by Gordon.)
RE: The New Age Atheist
(14-12-2013 12:17 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  This one's going pruney from prolonged immersion in Gordon's dribblings.

My dribblings are what you're here to read. Look at the post count. Look at the views. No one wants to PM you about what "you" think. I assure you, for every one person who asks you what you "think." I will have ten who want a tarot reading or will ask me to contact a lost loved one.

Dribblings, huh? Here's a typical reading.

http://www.psychicseminary.com/forum/ind...411#msg411

You should stop by and try it. You might like it. It's free. And like Jack Twist said: It ain't nobody's business but ours.
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14-12-2013, 02:07 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(14-12-2013 02:01 AM)Gordon Wrote:  I assure you, for every one person who asks you what you "think." I will have ten who want a tarot reading or will ask me to contact a lost loved one.
You think that's something to be proud of? [Image: 3xNuwIr.gif]

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
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14-12-2013, 02:43 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(14-12-2013 02:01 AM)Gordon Wrote:  No one wants to PM you about what "you" think.

Actually, I PM'ed PP because I am DEEPLY interested in what PP thinks.

So much for your sophomoric bravado.

[Image: Too+_f6be8c3067bd93de6370b7f74187b6cc.jpg]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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14-12-2013, 04:04 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
Pleased to meet you too Gordon. You're everything I expected you'd be and more.
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15-12-2013, 01:31 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(14-12-2013 04:04 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Pleased to meet you too Gordon. You're everything I expected you'd be and more.

I'm here to please. Thumbsup
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