The New Age Atheist
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07-12-2013, 09:19 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 01:48 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 12:11 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  The mind, brain, and body are one. The shackles fall off without leaving the wrist, you are free in bondage. When you get that you will understand.
but yeah, atheists can believe whatever mumbo jumbo they want but must revoke their license if they start to believe in god(s)

I love this. In the past (like ten years ago), no self-respecting atheist would have been anything other than a secular materialist. Now you all can believe in ghosts. Rolleyes

I am not laughing. Or at least I'm not saying I don't believe in ghosts; I'm just flabbergasted that atheism is already beginning to collapse under its own weight--just like the Christian Church.

I blame the modern world. We have discovered too much strange Censored to go on acting like everything is deterministic material physics.

Well, hell, for all I know, maybe I'm an atheist, too. I mean, what is the god you don't believe in? I may not believe in him either. Blink

What I do believe in is this:

We are creations of an Ultimate Being.
We are like its dream images, like the dream people you create when you dream.
We have a spiritual plane where our thougts create a universe--each one of us does.
Our purpose is to be happy, not so much here, but there.
We are incarnated here to go through suffering to learn wisdom so we can create a universe where we experience joy. Why?
Because we are a modality of the Ultimate Being. Its joy only comes from the joy we create.
If we create a hell, the Ultimate Source expereinces that hell.
If we create a hell, we are reincarnated to learn more wisdom, so we might get it right the next time we die and wake up on our spiritual plane.

Do I think it matters if one is an atheist? Frankly, no. Belief in God is not a way in which we "worship" god. We worship god through the practice of our psychic skills, through living a holy life, both of which lead to the wisdom necessary to create joy in our individual universes within the Ultimate Source's multiverse.

So, as you can imagine, I'm thrilled to hear you can be an atheist and believe in ghosts. Shocking

Wow - that's like - magical! ShockingShockingShocking

But..........erm
I think you need to steer clear from ghosts if you wish to be taken seriously. Ghosts, hon, by definition is the *spirit* now in another plane of existence. So....things like 'spirit' and 'planes of existence' are getting you dangerously close to admitting to the same factors which make up a god. Just like tarot cards, crystal balls, most anything in the Magic department (ask me- I'm an expert).
Atheism is Non-belief - indicating no acceptance of the supernatural or tendencies, attachments, attributes thereof. It's one of those places, Gordon, where you don't get to have your cake and eat it to. The two things really don't jive.

Believe me - I've tried to marry the two concepts. They just do not jive.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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07-12-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(06-12-2013 08:39 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  There are plenty of people who call themselves Buddhists who don't believe in a god-thing and still believe in reincarnation. It's kinda stupid, but there it is...

In countries dominated by a Christian population, things like spirits without a god seems ridiculous because it has always been tied together, so the idea of spirits without a god seems ludicrous. I can understand how Buddhists could see things the way they do. They weren't indoctrinated to believe in a god, so believing in reincarnation without a god is perfectly logical to them.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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07-12-2013, 11:05 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 10:45 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  In countries dominated by a Christian population, things like spirits without a god seems ridiculous because it has always been tied together, so the idea of spirits without a god seems ludicrous. I can understand how Buddhists could see things the way they do. They weren't indoctrinated to believe in a god, so believing in reincarnation without a god is perfectly logical to them.

Very good point.
Dogmatic christianity is culturally biased.

One can be superstitious without a god even entering into the superstition. Know any atheist baseball players...? ... those fuckers are superstitious to the teeth.

From the little reading I've done, I think I've concluded that superstition is an OCD thing - the vestiges of some evolutionary trait which may have served some purpose but is no longer relevant.

I think because of our numerous cultural biases, humans incorporated religious dogma into this OCD thing. Just a thought. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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07-12-2013, 11:45 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
Egor, I wonder - what is it that compels you to keep trying to find some sort of supernatural pattern to explain things. All the things you have gone through are just that - frantic attempts to weave supernatural phenomenon into things.

Why isn't the real world enough? I am looking out the window at snow covered trees and meadows in the sun, and I am just enjoying it. I don't need any supernatural explanations for it's beauty. I don't really need any explanations, I can just enjoy it for what it is.

How come you can't do that? Why does everything have to have a supernatural reason for being?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-12-2013, 11:50 AM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 11:05 AM)kim Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 10:45 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  In countries dominated by a Christian population, things like spirits without a god seems ridiculous because it has always been tied together, so the idea of spirits without a god seems ludicrous. I can understand how Buddhists could see things the way they do. They weren't indoctrinated to believe in a god, so believing in reincarnation without a god is perfectly logical to them.

Very good point.
Dogmatic christianity is culturally biased.

One can be superstitious without a god even entering into the superstition. Know any atheist baseball players...? ... those fuckers are superstitious to the teeth.

From the little reading I've done, I think I've concluded that superstition is an OCD thing - the vestiges of some evolutionary trait which may have served some purpose but is no longer relevant.

I think because of our numerous cultural biases, humans incorporated religious dogma into this OCD thing. Just a thought. Drinking Beverage

I agree with you on your views of superstition, kim. E.g. why do I get nervous when I hit a math block? Performance anxiety issue that is of no threat to my life, and yet it still feels that way. But when you look back in time, if you appeared weak, couldn't perform, you ran the risk of not getting a mate, even becoming alienated by the group you lived with. Survival induced stress shifts and turns into another stress developed by our own cultures discoveries, like math.

Or how about why some children who are afraid of the dark? Before homes, there were campfires. The children who strayed from the campfire had a less likely chance of survival due to their size and lack of abilities to defend - but those who stayed close to the campfire had a higher chance of surviving and passed on their genes and the fear of the dark. I was terrified of the dark when I was a child but didn't learn until recently why it was so.

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07-12-2013, 11:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2013 12:09 PM by Gordon.)
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 09:19 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Atheism is Non-belief - indicating no acceptance of the supernatural or tendencies, attachments, attributes thereof.


Well, that's what it used to be. Not two years ago, no one would have said an atheist can believe in spiritual enteties and still be an atheist. Richard Dawkins must have given the okay on it or something, because I'm seeing it more and more.

Of course, it doesn't make any sense. I explained that in a post no one has addressed. It's a matter of causality. If you have spirits, it implies some sort of god-figure.

But I've never found atheists to be particularly coherent in their beliefs. They have always had to ignore too many things in the world in order to be atheists. So if they want to have their cake and eat it, too. Apparently they will. It's silly. But then saying there is no god is kind of silly, too.


Quote:It's one of those places, Gordon, where you don't get to have your cake and eat it to. The two things really don't jive.

Believe me - I've tried to marry the two concepts. They just do not jive.

You're preaching to the choir on that one. Yes
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07-12-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 11:05 AM)kim Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 10:45 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  In countries dominated by a Christian population, things like spirits without a god seems ridiculous because it has always been tied together, so the idea of spirits without a god seems ludicrous. I can understand how Buddhists could see things the way they do. They weren't indoctrinated to believe in a god, so believing in reincarnation without a god is perfectly logical to them.

Very good point.
Dogmatic christianity is culturally biased.

One can be superstitious without a god even entering into the superstition. Know any atheist baseball players...? ... those fuckers are superstitious to the teeth.

From the little reading I've done, I think I've concluded that superstition is an OCD thing - the vestiges of some evolutionary trait which may have served some purpose but is no longer relevant.

I think because of our numerous cultural biases, humans incorporated religious dogma into this OCD thing. Just a thought. Drinking Beverage
Superstitions be damned, I don't think I even believe in good or bad luck, lets break some mirrors! Superstitions are silly thing and you must ask yourself where these things come about. Mirrors were very rare things and momma didn't want you silly children to break it so she created a silly story to stop little children from even thinking of it. I bet more than half of these superstitions were old wives' tales run amuck. Baseball players and other sportsman, very good example. They create their own superstitions because of the high risk position they find themselves in. Even wear hokey "ionized" bracelets and other charms. One career ending injury or if they aren't on the top of their game they get benched or career ends forever. Sports all they know, some make successful restaurant deals or just run a deli. Depends how famous ya get.

(somehow I feel I set gordy on fire, I meant that these things mind body brain are one because what we call the mind is just the brain not some silly manifestation of brain or separate...I'd say they are names for the same thing and none of that psychic nonsense. Brain controls body, so see all connected to singular body system.)
When people say mind, maybe its some kind of personification of the brain or attributed to emotions(also brain). Is your mind clear? that doesn't mean your brain is transparent, that's sillyTongue

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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07-12-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 10:45 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 08:39 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  There are plenty of people who call themselves Buddhists who don't believe in a god-thing and still believe in reincarnation. It's kinda stupid, but there it is...

In countries dominated by a Christian population, things like spirits without a god seems ridiculous because it has always been tied together, so the idea of spirits without a god seems ludicrous. I can understand how Buddhists could see things the way they do. They weren't indoctrinated to believe in a god, so believing in reincarnation without a god is perfectly logical to them.

Yes, there is a kind of atheism a person can have and still believe in spirits. One could say that God is monistic in nature, meaning everything is of the substance of God, and there is nothing that exists that is not of that substance, and that's the most logical way of seeing god, btw. And that leads to a kind of "holy atheism."

I mean God can't have a god. With monism, (similar to Brahman in Hinduism) There is only God, so there is no "other" god out there. In fact, the entire idea of god loses all meaning.

But that's not the kind of atheism slithering around this forum. In this forum it's all about magical thinking. I.e., things exist with no cause and for no rhyme or reason.

I am an atheist and I am not an atheist at the same time. There needs to be a term for that, because that paradox is the one most closely fitting nature. God exists, but all there is is God, so there is no God--there is only what is and what has always been and will never end.

Part of what "is," apparently, are individual spiritual modalities of the Divine. She creates them, raises them, and they grow up to become one with her again.

So:

Good atheism: "The term God has no meaning."
Bad atheism: "There is no God."
Pathetic atheism: "I can't see it, so it isn't there."

My humble opinion. Thank you for reading it.
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07-12-2013, 12:28 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 12:05 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 10:45 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  In countries dominated by a Christian population, things like spirits without a god seems ridiculous because it has always been tied together, so the idea of spirits without a god seems ludicrous. I can understand how Buddhists could see things the way they do. They weren't indoctrinated to believe in a god, so believing in reincarnation without a god is perfectly logical to them.

Yes, there is a kind of atheism a person can have and still believe in spirits. One could say that God is monistic in nature, meaning everything is of the substance of God, and there is nothing that exists that is not of that substance, and that's the most logical way of seeing god, btw. And that leads to a kind of "holy atheism."

I mean God can't have a god. With monism, (similar to Brahman in Hinduism) There is only God, so there is no "other" god out there. In fact, the entire idea of god loses all meaning.

But that's not the kind of atheism slithering around this forum. In this forum it's all about magical thinking. I.e., things exist with no cause and for no rhyme or reason.

I am an atheist and I am not an atheist at the same time. There needs to be a term for that, because that paradox is the one most closely fitting nature. God exists, but all there is is God, so there is no God--there is only what is and what has always been and will never end.

Part of what "is," apparently, are individual spiritual modalities of the Divine. She creates them, raises them, and they grow up to become one with her again.

So:

Good atheism: "The term God has no meaning."
Bad atheism: "There is no God."
Pathetic atheism: "I can't see it, so it isn't there."

My humble opinion. Thank you for reading it.
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Thats some lovely strawmen you have thereSmile Would you kindly remove them from my property?

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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07-12-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: The New Age Atheist
(07-12-2013 12:05 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 10:45 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  In countries dominated by a Christian population, things like spirits without a god seems ridiculous because it has always been tied together, so the idea of spirits without a god seems ludicrous. I can understand how Buddhists could see things the way they do. They weren't indoctrinated to believe in a god, so believing in reincarnation without a god is perfectly logical to them.

Yes, there is a kind of atheism a person can have and still believe in spirits. One could say that God is monistic in nature, meaning everything is of the substance of God, and there is nothing that exists that is not of that substance, and that's the most logical way of seeing god, btw. And that leads to a kind of "holy atheism."

I mean God can't have a god. With monism, (similar to Brahman in Hinduism) There is only God, so there is no "other" god out there. In fact, the entire idea of god loses all meaning.

But that's not the kind of atheism slithering around this forum. In this forum it's all about magical thinking. I.e., things exist with no cause and for no rhyme or reason.

I am an atheist and I am not an atheist at the same time. There needs to be a term for that, because that paradox is the one most closely fitting nature. God exists, but all there is is God, so there is no God--there is only what is and what has always been and will never end.

Part of what "is," apparently, are individual spiritual modalities of the Divine. She creates them, raises them, and they grow up to become one with her again.

So:

Good atheism: "The term God has no meaning."
Bad atheism: "There is no God."
Pathetic atheism: "I can't see it, so it isn't there."

My humble opinion. Thank you for reading it.
[Image: 12%20(1).gif]

I am an atheist (not a good one or a bad one or a pathetic one, just an atheist) and I am not not an atheist at the same time. If you can't understand it, know it's just a limit of your own understanding. From that limit comes these paradoxes you find and post on the forum. Does it feel like grasping at straws sometimes?

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