The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
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10-09-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
In christianity one can go out and rape, murder small children, rob a bank, tell lies, cheat on their spouse and do any number of horrible things, but all is forgiven if one accepts christ as their savior. I don't find this in any way moral.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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10-09-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
There is no correlation between atheism and lack of morals. There is however statistical data that shows a substantial correlation between religious belief and lack of morals, lower education and IQ, criminal tendencies, and low civilization ranking based on: quality of life, social values, familial values, health, teenage pregnancies and educational opportunities.

for those who have seen this from me before, feel free to stop reading here Yes

To expound,

Phil Zuckerman, associate professor of sociology at Pitzer College in California, in his article, "Is Faith Good For Us" states the following: "A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute."

A study by Gregory S. Paul, entitled "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look," was done and the study's conclusion was that there was an inverse relationship between religion and poor societal health rates. What that means is that the higher the level of religious belief in a country, the lower the level of societal health (more violent crimes, suicides, teen pregnancies, etc.).

So it seems that a plethora of evidence exists to show that not only do we not need religion in our lives to be good humans, but that having it in our lives can be counter-productive and unhealthy.

oooh I almost forgot my favorite factoid: Largest percentage religious group entering US prison? Christian. You may say, well of course, they are the majority (about 55%) of american population...true, but guess what the lowest percentage group is? Atheist at .07%, even though we are 30-35% of US population.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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10-09-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
(10-09-2014 11:17 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  "Hello! My name is Jimmy McJibbers, and I believe in an invisible man in the sky! It's the only thing that is keeping me from going on a rampage where I kill every person in my path!"

When I was Christian, I used to make the same argument. Of course, I didn't actually mean it. It was just so alien of a way to think for me, at the time.

But yeah, if they actually meant that, it'd be super scary. "The only thing keeping me from killing you right now is my belief in an invisible super-cop."
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10-09-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim
The more I think about it, the sillier this theist harangue becomes. Why do they think it's so difficult to have a moral code without their book? All you need is reasonable intelligence and some life experience and you can come up with your own 10 commandments. I started a thread on making your own here - Your own ten commandments
Everything I read on that thread is FAR more practical, relevant and to the point than anything in the bible.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-09-2014, 07:40 PM
Hello, CleverUsername!
(10-09-2014 11:35 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I'd like to know why they'd even fear us to begin with.

Good question. Smile


I think it's all part of their programming, along with their emotional investment in the whole thing, which makes it impossible for them to think that morality comes from anywhere else but God, as laid out in ancient writings. So, clear and objective alternatives are automatically and summarily dismissed. There's that huge cognitive dissonance thing going on, as a result.
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10-09-2014, 08:18 PM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
(10-09-2014 11:17 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  "You don't believe in God?! Well, that's scary!"

Most, if not all of us, have heard this one before when telling somebody that we are atheist. The thing I find funny about this is, considering their arguments, shouldn't WE be afraid of THEM?

They claim that there is no morality without God. Therefore, they are scared of us because, according to them, without a belief in God we have no reason to be moral. Call me crazy, but I find the notion that their belief in an invisible man in the sky is the only thing keeping them from going on a killing spree to be quite scary. Seriously, when people make this argument to me, this is what it sounds like:

"Hello! My name is Jimmy McJibbers, and I believe in an invisible man in the sky! It's the only thing that is keeping me from going on a rampage where I kill every person in my path!"

Yet, they can't understand why I feel like I'm the one that should be slowly backing away and saying "Uhh...yeah...it was nice talking to you..."

It's quite obvious that their beliefs aren't keeping them from doing evil. Christians often view themselves as being immoral and needing God's guidance, but that in no way means that they are actually as immoral without God as they themselves believe.

I talked with a woman the other day who said she was surprised to talk with a Christian on the airplane who kept on saying how immoral he was and she could not see him being anything close to being actually immoral. They are probably surprised people are living without God's guidance because they feel that they couldn't live without God.
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10-09-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
since most atheists were theists to begin with our very existence debunks/refutes that claims
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10-09-2014, 11:47 PM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
I haven't raped or murdered anyone yet.

I'd be more concerned about the wacko who thinks he can kill in the name of his God or kill and be forgiven.
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11-09-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
(10-09-2014 11:47 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I haven't raped or murdered anyone yet.

So you say...

How do we know we can believe an amoral atheist?

Angel

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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11-09-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: The "No morals without God" Claim...Shouldn't The Atheists Be Fearing The Theists?
(11-09-2014 10:11 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 11:47 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I haven't raped or murdered anyone yet.

So you say...

How do we know we can believe an amoral atheist?

Angel

*gasp* Maybe he protests too much..... :O Tongue
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