The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
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17-06-2014, 03:36 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 02:52 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 02:42 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  So you agree it is understandable - good cuz so do I. The craziest and most psychotic people to have been institutionalized have sureness of conviction. The difference between you and those poor folks is that their diagnosis is pretty much not disputed.
Wow, you really got me there. OH...OOOHH...I MUST BE INSANEAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!

IDK about insane, but you must be under 12 years old based on your posts - yes?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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17-06-2014, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2014 06:48 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(11-06-2014 09:12 AM)ComradeBunny Wrote:  My sister and I were driving to our cabin and started talking about religion. She says that all the bad things in the Old Testament don't count anymore because Jesus made a new covenant. I thought that he said he didn't come to change anything, but she disagreed. I'm looking for help in countering her interpretation.

I find it odd that she can believe so heavily in a book that would condemn her to death for being a homosexual. She pulls thing out of her backside and says that God accepts her now because Jesus. I don't understand how she can ignore the fact that the God she believes in did all those horrible things in the Old Testament. How can she ignore the fact that this God told people to kill her?

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I have heard and read things about this subject, but I can't seem to put together a simple argument for her. I have ADHD and sometimes my brain just doesn't want to join ideas together in a coherent way. Thanks in advance.

Just remember the OT is based on older greek myths, and the NT is largely pseudepigrapha, sprinkled with outright lies and exaggerations. To point to this questionable, fictional book full of analogies and fairy tales as an argument from authority for ANYTHING is delusional by design.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-06-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 12:45 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Do you honestly have no clue how stupid that sounds?
To a non-christian, sure.
You totally missed the point. Drinking Beverage

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  
Quote:Do you know how many of us used to be Christians?
Yes, none of you. That is easily discernible by the words you say.
Ah, the no true Scotsman FALLACY. Again, you missed it. I was once something like you, had very strong faith, and was 100% positive that I would never lose it. Jesus was real, Jesus was God, Jesus was my savior, and nothing truly mattered in life except to the extent that it contributed to my ultimate salvation. I was every bit a Christian as anyone else - and frankly more than some who are Christian in name only. I went to church, not weekly, but daily. I gave up many things to ensure I wasn't distracted from my "calling". And I spent a lot of time learning about the doctrines of my faith. There is no reason God wouldn't have revealed his plan to me if, as you say, he does so to all Christians.

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  I can easily prove.
Go ahead. I'm all ears. Drinking Beverage

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  
Quote:And many of us were quite devout as well - like me, for instance, who even seriously considered becoming a priest at one time (as much as it pains me to admit it now).

So what your saying is that you have spoken to and learned from the Holy Spirit all about God? He has shown you the truths that revealed the lies that you were held captive to? And in the subsequent humility and awesomeness of having God instruct you, you just decided you'd rather not listen? I don't believe that.
Sort of, but not quite.Regarding the "revealed the lies you were held captive to" part, what lies would those be? And no, I didn't "decide" anything nor was it about "rather not listen" at all. The real truth became apparent to me the more I learned about myself, people in general, science, history, and psychology. In fact, when my faith first started to vanish, I prayed extensively for God to help me get it back because I was scared to death of what was happening quite out of my control. I certainly didn't choose and it wasn't even what I wanted at the time. But I refused (and still do) to look at some things that are as obvious as 1 + 1 = 2 and insist 1 + 1 = something else because some god concept says so. No, it was the god concept that had to go.

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  
Quote: Yet, I was never shown a plan of God. And I was every bit a "true Christian" as any other Christian. So please do explain how your statement can possibly be true then.

Well obviously you are mistaking Christianity with religion. Respectfully, you thought you were a Christian.
Wrong. I was a Christian. So please do prove to me that I wasn't as you claimed you "easily" could do. Rolleyes

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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17-06-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 03:35 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 02:56 PM)childeye Wrote:  Of course not. You don't even believe in God to begin with. That's like a blind person trying to tell a seeing person how the sky is not beautiful.

I personally do not need to believe but I have dozens of family members, friends, and church leaders with which I have learned from, along with many hours of researching the christian faith, teachings, and scriptures. I do claim that based on my knowledge and experiences, you are not a TRUE christian.

I also let my baptist aunt read your description of chritians and she also called you not a TRUE christian - so 2 to 1 there!
No offense, but I am sure if you showed your aunt this she would agree. Whoever is in the body of Christ is led by the Holy Spirit. That is a Christian. Moreover I do not need your or her approval. The Spirit its self bears witness.
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17-06-2014, 05:40 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 05:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  Whoever is in the body of Christ is led by the Holy Spirit. That is a Christian. Moreover I do not need your or her approval. The Spirit its self bears witness.

Can we chose which body part in Jebus we want to be in ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-06-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 05:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 05:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  Whoever is in the body of Christ is led by the Holy Spirit. That is a Christian. Moreover I do not need your or her approval. The Spirit its self bears witness.

Can we chose which body part in Jebus we want to be in ?

I'd avoid whatever part they make those wafers out of.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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17-06-2014, 06:09 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 05:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 03:35 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I personally do not need to believe but I have dozens of family members, friends, and church leaders with which I have learned from, along with many hours of researching the christian faith, teachings, and scriptures. I do claim that based on my knowledge and experiences, you are not a TRUE christian.

I also let my baptist aunt read your description of chritians and she also called you not a TRUE christian - so 2 to 1 there!
No offense, but I am sure if you showed your aunt this she would agree. Whoever is in the body of Christ is led by the Holy Spirit. That is a Christian. Moreover I do not need your or her approval. The Spirit its self bears witness.

IDK, you calling my sweet aunt a liar childlike, I mean childeye. I can take the judgment because as you said, I don't delude myself on purpose, but she is convinced her 40 years as a Christian supports her claim that you not a TRUE Christian. I am going with her view unless you can prove this opinion false.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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17-06-2014, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2014 06:44 PM by childeye.)
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 04:28 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  To a non-christian, sure.
You totally missed the point. Drinking Beverage

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  Yes, none of you. That is easily discernible by the words you say.
Ah, the no true Scotsman FALLACY. Again, you missed it. I was once something like you, had very strong faith, and was 100% positive that I would never lose it. Jesus was real, Jesus was God, Jesus was my savior, and nothing truly mattered in life except to the extent that it contributed to my ultimate salvation. I was every bit a Christian as anyone else - and frankly more than some who are Christian in name only. I went to church, not weekly, but daily. I gave up many things to ensure I wasn't distracted from my "calling". And I spent a lot of time learning about the doctrines of my faith. There is no reason God wouldn't have revealed his plan to me if, as you say, he does so to all Christians.

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  I can easily prove.
Go ahead. I'm all ears. Drinking Beverage

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  So what your saying is that you have spoken to and learned from the Holy Spirit all about God? He has shown you the truths that revealed the lies that you were held captive to? And in the subsequent humility and awesomeness of having God instruct you, you just decided you'd rather not listen? I don't believe that.
Sort of, but not quite.Regarding the "revealed the lies you were held captive to" part, what lies would those be? And no, I didn't "decide" anything nor was it about "rather not listen" at all. The real truth became apparent to me the more I learned about myself, people in general, science, history, and psychology. In fact, when my faith first started to vanish, I prayed extensively for God to help me get it back because I was scared to death of what was happening quite out of my control. I certainly didn't choose and it wasn't even what I wanted at the time. But I refused (and still do) to look at some things that are as obvious as 1 + 1 = 2 and insist 1 + 1 = something else because some god concept says so. No, it was the god concept that had to go.

(17-06-2014 01:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  Well obviously you are mistaking Christianity with religion. Respectfully, you thought you were a Christian.
Wrong. I was a Christian. So please do prove to me that I wasn't as you claimed you "easily" could do. Rolleyes
Okay, let me show you the differences between you and me. But please understand I mean no offense. The first thing I notice is you say you had very strong faith. Faith in what exactly? You then proceed to elaborate further saying this, "Jesus was real, Jesus was God, Jesus was my savior, and nothing truly mattered in life except to the extent that it contributed to my ultimate salvation".
My faith is in the fact that it is a great Love that would sacrifice one's self for others, as sure as it is not love to sacrifice others for one's self. That is an undeniable Truth to me. Undeniable. It is just the way it is. Jesus is real alright, as in keeping it real. So I would never say I believe in the Spirit of Christ for the sake of my salvation. That is a self serving reason to believe in Jesus.

Your statement "Jesus was real, Jesus was God" indicates a faith based upon superstition, not the Truth that is revealed in the Christ. Your statement 100% positive I would never lose it, yet you lost it, also emphasizes you were not believing in the undeniable Truth revealed in the Christ. As scripture says, No greater Love can be shown then for one to lay down his life for his friends. He is indeed the good shepherd. And because his Love is such, he is trustworthy. It doesn't matter if Jesus was real as you say, it only matters that Love is real and valued above all else, for God is Love.

The fact that you would ask what lies I am referring to, means you have never heard from the Holy Spirit. Nor has he guided your steps to see all the lies that would cause a man to sacrifice others for themselves. He has not shown you, your errors made in pride and the spirits of darkness that reside under those lies. He has not revealed to you why pride exists in humanity and the lie that one must believe for it to exist. Hence I say you were practicing religion. There are countless lies but only one Truth. The simple Truth reveals all lies as hypocrisy, Love God with all your heart mind and soul is to Love Love as the most valued of attributes we can perceive. To love others as you would want to be loved is the opposite of hypocrisy. Anyone who does to others what they would not want done to them is practicing hypocrisy and their reasoning is based upon a lie. The Truth is a Spirit, a person whom without, we are simply pawns of the enemy who rules through deception.
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17-06-2014, 06:46 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 06:09 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 05:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  No offense, but I am sure if you showed your aunt this she would agree. Whoever is in the body of Christ is led by the Holy Spirit. That is a Christian. Moreover I do not need your or her approval. The Spirit its self bears witness.

IDK, you calling my sweet aunt a liar childlike, I mean childeye. I can take the judgment because as you said, I don't delude myself on purpose, but she is convinced her 40 years as a Christian supports her claim that you not a TRUE Christian. I am going with her view unless you can prove this opinion false.
So you showed your Aunt what I said, "Whoever is in the body of Christ is led by the Holy Spirit", and she said that is not true?
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17-06-2014, 06:47 PM
RE: The Old Testament and the New Covenant--help
(17-06-2014 06:39 PM)childeye Wrote:  The simple Truth reveals all lies as hypocrisy ...

Simple truth is


There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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