The Paris Climate Accord / Trump's Exit (merged)
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31-05-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
Greenland weighs in.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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31-05-2017, 10:29 AM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
(31-05-2017 08:45 AM)Cypher44 Wrote:  Donald Trump to pull out of Paris climate agreement, which Obama signed in 2016 alongside 195 countries, so far only Nicaragua and Syria have declined, the focus of the agreement was to reduce the world's temperature by 1.5 degrees Celsius has been effective since 4 November 2016

Actually the intent of the Paris agreement was to keep average global warming between 1.5 and 2.0 degrees C. Some experts say we are already bound to exceed 1.5 degrees C because of the CO2 we have already emitted and are likely to soon emit, since there is a lag time involved with the temperature change. The reason they chose this goal was because of the positive feedback loops which will likely kick in if we go beyond 2.0 degrees C. Even then, existing pledges will only hold the world to 3.4 degrees C because built right into the Paris agreement is the hope that countries will increase their pledges over time to meet the real target goal of below 2.0 degrees C.

So there is no way to actually "reduce the world's temperature by 1.5 degrees Celsius" as you said. We will be stuck with whatever increased temperatures we hit for hundreds if not thousands of years.
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31-05-2017, 10:33 AM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
(31-05-2017 10:29 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 08:45 AM)Cypher44 Wrote:  Donald Trump to pull out of Paris climate agreement, which Obama signed in 2016 alongside 195 countries, so far only Nicaragua and Syria have declined, the focus of the agreement was to reduce the world's temperature by 1.5 degrees Celsius has been effective since 4 November 2016

Actually the intent of the Paris agreement was to keep average global warming between 1.5 and 2.0 degrees C. Some experts say we are already bound to exceed 1.5 degrees C because of the CO2 we have already emitted and are likely to soon emit, since there is a lag time involved with the temperature change. The reason they chose this goal was because of the positive feedback loops which will likely kick in if we go beyond 2.0 degrees C. Even then, existing pledges will only hold the world to 3.4 degrees C because built right into the Paris agreement is the hope that countries will increase their pledges over time to meet the real target goal of below 2.0 degrees C.

So there is no way to actually "reduce the world's temperature by 1.5 degrees Celsius" as you said. We will be stuck with whatever increased temperatures we hit for hundreds if not thousands of years.

I apologise, It shall be fixed immediately, thnx for the heads up

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31-05-2017, 10:37 AM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
Apologies to all, The Paris Climate Agreement was to keep average global warming between 1.5-2.0 degrees Celsius not to reduce it as that's not possible. At least Therouvian knows what's going on.ThumbsupSmile

Oh no. He's here - God
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31-05-2017, 11:36 AM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
According to one Republican, we shouldn't worry because God will take care of us.

"Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) told a constituent last week that God can solve the problem of climate change if the global phenomenon truly exists. The 66-year-old Republican, who is a climate chance skeptic, made the remark at a town hall in Coldwater, Michigan, on Friday. 'I believe there’s climate change,' Walberg said, according to a video of the exchange obtained by HuffPost. 'I believe there’s been climate change since the beginning of time. I believe there are cycles. Do I think man has some impact? Yeah, of course. Can man change the entire universe? No. Why do I believe that?' he went on. 'Well, as a Christian, I believe that there is a creator in God who is much bigger than us. And I’m confident that, if there’s a real problem, he can take care of it.' "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tim-...mg00000063

Wow, that's a relief!

Hobo
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31-05-2017, 11:43 AM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
(31-05-2017 11:36 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  According to one Republican, we shouldn't worry because God will take care of us.

"Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) told a constituent last week that God can solve the problem of climate change if the global phenomenon truly exists. The 66-year-old Republican, who is a climate chance skeptic, made the remark at a town hall in Coldwater, Michigan, on Friday. 'I believe there’s climate change,' Walberg said, according to a video of the exchange obtained by HuffPost. 'I believe there’s been climate change since the beginning of time. I believe there are cycles. Do I think man has some impact? Yeah, of course. Can man change the entire universe? No. Why do I believe that?' he went on. 'Well, as a Christian, I believe that there is a creator in God who is much bigger than us. And I’m confident that, if there’s a real problem, he can take care of it.' "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tim-...mg00000063

Wow, that's a relief!

Hobo
Yeah that is a fairly common trope, god is the one in control of nature, not man, therefore whatever man does is inherently puny / insignificant and can't have much of an impact. It is also an extension of the way humans thought when the earth was not fully settled, and seemed boundless. Who cares if you dump effluent into the river, billions of gallons of fresh water just keep washing it away and no one (with any power) is downstream to complain about it.

Leading from behind for Jesus ...
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31-05-2017, 12:31 PM
the Paris Climate Accord
Breaking news.

[Image: 075962825c3526e35147954f21baaf10.jpg]
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31-05-2017, 12:45 PM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
(31-05-2017 11:36 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  According to one Republican, we shouldn't worry because God will take care of us.

"Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) told a constituent last week that God can solve the problem of climate change if the global phenomenon truly exists. The 66-year-old Republican, who is a climate chance skeptic, made the remark at a town hall in Coldwater, Michigan, on Friday. 'I believe there’s climate change,' Walberg said, according to a video of the exchange obtained by HuffPost. 'I believe there’s been climate change since the beginning of time. I believe there are cycles. Do I think man has some impact? Yeah, of course. Can man change the entire universe? No. Why do I believe that?' he went on. 'Well, as a Christian, I believe that there is a creator in God who is much bigger than us. And I’m confident that, if there’s a real problem, he can take care of it.' "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tim-...mg00000063

Wow, that's a relief!

Hobo

I recently got a different take on this from a friend of mine. He's an atheist and an engineer, and probably the most intelligent person I know, but he's not the least bit worried about global warming or climate change, and doesn't think we need to do anything about it -- because he's convinced that technology will find a way to solve the problem. He has boundless faith in the power of technology to solve any and all problems. I do not share his faith, which in a way seems about as mindless as religious faith. He will not admit that technology has limits.

One way technology could help is to find ways to reduce CO2 emissions, etc., but he doesn't think that's necessary. He's sure that we will find some magic technological fix.

Facepalm
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31-05-2017, 02:14 PM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
(31-05-2017 12:45 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  One way technology could help is to find ways to reduce CO2 emissions, etc., but he doesn't think that's necessary. He's sure that we will find some magic technological fix.

Facepalm

I recently read Bill Nye the Science Guy's book Unstoppable, about applying technological solutions to climate change. He is also an optimist, though not as extreme as your friend. He made the case for sustainable energy sources, of course. But he also thought things like air-seawater hydrosols (to increase the reflectivity of seawater), carbon nanotubes (for increased efficiency of electric transmission lines), graphene sheets (for more energy-efficient sea water to fresh water conversion), and nuclear fission to be real possibilities, even though none of them are as-of-yet proven technologies. The truth is, we can't wait too long before we do something dramatic to reduce climate change, and most undeveloped technological solutions have long lead-times.
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31-05-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: the Paris Climate Accord
"California Gov. Jerry Brown, one of the nation’s foremost proponents of efforts to address climate change, on Wednesday called President Donald Trump’s planned withdrawal from the Paris climate accord 'outrageous,' while predicting its effect will be short-lived. 'This current departure from reality in Washington will be very short-lived, that I promise you,' Brown told POLITICO in an interview. 'I’ve spoken with Republicans here in the legislature, and they’re beginning to get very serious about climate action, so the momentum is all the other way. And I think Trump, paradoxically, is giving climate denial such a bad name that he’s actually building the very movement that he is [purporting] to undermine.'"

"News of the president’s decision drew ire from Democrats and environmental groups across the country, nowhere more so than in California, where the state Senate hours later passed major climate legislation requiring utilities to obtain 100 percent of their electricity from renewable sources by 2045."

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/31...eal-238993
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