The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
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03-06-2014, 06:03 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2014 03:22 AM by Mozart Link.)
The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
The world of religion (there being a God and an afterlife in which you experience eternal joy and no suffering) might actually become a reality here on Earth through science. When science has achieved absolute perfection many years from now, we will live in a world where all illnesses have been cured, we no longer have problems and negative emotions, and we might even have an artificially created God that can look after us, or even an artificial afterlife.

Now evolution has designed our brains to experience negative emotions. However, this fight or flight response is primitive (which is the reason why so many people have depression and anxiety disorders) and needs to be updated through science. Therefore, instead of having brains that evolution designed for us, we can instead choose to have brains how we want them to be through science. Therefore, we can even choose to have brains that no longer experience negative emotion or even brains that have a much higher capacity to experience pleasure in life than that of any normal human brain.

But this life as it is now and how it designed us sort of says the message to us: "We are insignificant creatures only designed for survival and to forever die in the end with no grand purpose. We are not meant to live a life of perfect joy and freedom and are designed to practically be slaves of our own negative emotional responses to life's struggles. And if a problem does happen in your life, well you are just going to have to live with and deal with it. And that even goes for any negative emotional responses you might have to these problems."

Now most atheists would adopt and accept this message of life. But I find it utterly degrading and inferior to who I am as a person. We as human beings are superior and this message of life is what is inferior and deserves to be eradicated through science. And science says so because it is trying to solve problems and achieve a life that is perfect and such with no problems. We as human beings with our human desires to achieve a perfect life with joy and such are trying to eradicate this inhuman message of life through science.

Most atheists would think that we are insignificant and don't deserve a life free of struggles. But that right there is an inhuman message that goes against who I am as a human being. Look at the worst suffering in this world and tell me that we don't deserve a life that is perfect with no problems with perfect enjoyment.

In conclusion, I wish to know if my post sort of changed your views as an atheist (not in terms of being someone who is more religious), but in other ways? If so or if not, could you explain why?

Edit: I realize that nothing has value, worth, or meaning. But I am someone who places great worth and value on human personality (who we are as human beings). And based on that worth and value, I then conclude that we are superior to this inferior message of life and that we do deserve a life of perfection and immortality. I am not some logical machine who will just look at someone who is, for example, loving and inspired, and say to them "Your personality is insignificant and is nothing more than the activity of atoms that is prone to a life of no meaning to suit your valued personality and is something that is just prone to death and no afterlife or God." Again, I am not saying that atheists who view life as having no value, worth, or meaning are in any sense logical machines.

Now we do have a sense of worth towards ourselves and others hence the reason why we care and help others and such in the first place. And that itself is worth something. So perceiving someone as being worthy is definitely worth something in this case. Therefore, to take this perception to the absolute extreme in saying that this person is worthy of a perfect life and immortality is the best sense of worth you can have. To say that we are not worthy of a perfect life and immortality is only demeaning our self-worth.

To me, just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. I believe what I just said to be logical and true. If you feel otherwise, then please explain why.

Final Edit: Now let me just say this in conclusion which is that for anyone who has a normal pleasurable life, it might seem to that person that a perfect life of pleasure and immortality might devalue any worth that life and pleasure have. But for someone who has one of the worst lives with severe chronic depression, then having the perfect life of pleasure with immortality would likely mean everything to this person and there would be nothing wrong with it. This would be my case as I have chronic depression.
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03-06-2014, 06:40 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
Strawman much?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-06-2014, 06:43 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  We as human beings are superior

Superior to what and how?
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03-06-2014, 06:48 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
Also while we're at it ...

(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  We are not meant to live a life of perfect joy and freedom and are designed to practically be slaves of our own negative emotional responses to life's struggles.

There is no design and there is no meaning behind our existence. We just are.

It's like getting a sack full of pebbles of different sizes, shaking it and then saying that the smaller pebbles were meant to be at the bottom. No, they minimised available free energy.
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03-06-2014, 07:09 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Now most atheists would adopt and accept this message of life. But I find it utterly degrading and inferior to who I am as a person.

Sucks for you.

Life doesn't have, and never had, an obligation to make you feel good.
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03-06-2014, 07:18 AM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2014 08:06 AM by Mozart Link.)
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
I realize that nothing has value, worth, or meaning. But I am someone who places great worth and value on human personality (who we are as human beings). And based on that worth and value, I then conclude that we are superior to this inferior message of life and that we do deserve a life of perfection and immortality. I am not some logical machine who will just look at someone who is, for example, loving and inspired, and say to them "Your personality is insignificant and is nothing more than the activity of atoms that is prone to a life of no meaning to suit your valued personality and is something that is just prone to death and no afterlife or God." Again, I am not saying that atheists who view life as having no value, worth, or meaning are in any sense logical machines.

(03-06-2014 07:09 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Now most atheists would adopt and accept this message of life. But I find it utterly degrading and inferior to who I am as a person.

Sucks for you.

Life doesn't have, and never had, an obligation to make you feel good.
Life may just be "as is" with no intention of making you feel good, but it should. And that's what science is trying to achieve. As for why it is that I say this life should be there to make us feel good is, again, because of my value and worth towards human personality. And why is it that I have such value and worth towards human personality? It is because I, myself, am a human being and not some logical machine who can simply look at who someone is as a person and have no worth and value towards that (again, meaning absolutely no offence towards atheists since I obviously realize that they have their own "detour" around this in order to achieve a life of their own value and worth and actually have value and worth towards human personality without concluding that we are worthy of a perfect life with immortality).

But as in terms of evolution, this life is there to make us happy. But only in the sense of solving problems (not in the sense that problems in life will have no negative emotional effect on us). We experience negative emotions because it is evolution's way of telling us that we need to solve problems in order to live a good life. Other than that, when there are no such problems, evolution has designed us so that we live a life full of enjoyment.
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03-06-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
Dude, where did you get so many wrong headed ideas ?
No wait, nevermind. You probably got them from religious family & friends. Ahhh the gift of ignorance that never stops giving.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-06-2014, 08:31 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
There is no unit of measure for this much delusion.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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03-06-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 08:31 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  There is no unit of measure for this much delusion.

He's roughly Half a Jeremy Walker.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-06-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  In conclusion, I wish to know if my post sort of changed your views as an atheist (not in terms of being someone who is more religious), but in other ways? If so or if not, could you explain why?

To be honest I'm not even sure what your central message is. How does this affect my life and what is your argument proposing that I do?
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