The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
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04-06-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  The world of religion (there being a God and an afterlife in which you experience eternal joy and no suffering) might actually become a reality here on Earth through science. When science has achieved absolute perfection many years from now, we will live in a world where all illnesses have been cured, we no longer have problems and negative emotions, and we might even have an artificially created God that can look after us, or even an artificial afterlife.

Now evolution has designed our brains to experience negative emotions. However, this fight or flight response is primitive (which is the reason why so many people have depression and anxiety disorders) and needs to be updated through science. Therefore, instead of having brains that evolution designed for us, we can instead choose to have brains how we want them to be through science. Therefore, we can even choose to have brains that no longer experience negative emotion or even brains that have a much higher capacity to experience pleasure in life than that of any normal human brain.

But this life as it is now and how it designed us sort of says the message to us: "We are insignificant creatures only designed for survival and to forever die in the end with no grand purpose. We are not meant to live a life of perfect joy and freedom and are designed to practically be slaves of our own negative emotional responses to life's struggles. And if a problem does happen in your life, well you are just going to have to live with and deal with it. And that even goes for any negative emotional responses you might have to these problems."

Now most atheists would adopt and accept this message of life. But I find it utterly degrading and inferior to who I am as a person. We as human beings are superior and this message of life is what is inferior and deserves to be eradicated through science. And science says so because it is trying to solve problems and achieve a life that is perfect and such with no problems. We as human beings with our human desires to achieve a perfect life with joy and such are trying to eradicate this inhuman message of life through science.

Most atheists would think that we are insignificant and don't deserve a life free of struggles. But that right there is an inhuman message that goes against who I am as a human being. Look at the worst suffering in this world and tell me that we don't deserve a life that is perfect with no problems with perfect enjoyment.

In conclusion, I wish to know if my post sort of changed your views as an atheist (not in terms of being someone who is more religious), but in other ways? If so or if not, could you explain why?

Edit: I realize that nothing has value, worth, or meaning. But I am someone who places great worth and value on human personality (who we are as human beings). And based on that worth and value, I then conclude that we are superior to this inferior message of life and that we do deserve a life of perfection and immortality. I am not some logical machine who will just look at someone who is, for example, loving and inspired, and say to them "Your personality is insignificant and is nothing more than the activity of atoms that is prone to a life of no meaning to suit your valued personality and is something that is just prone to death and no afterlife or God." Again, I am not saying that atheists who view life as having no value, worth, or meaning are in any sense logical machines.

Now we do have a sense of worth towards ourselves and others hence the reason why we care and help others and such in the first place. And that itself is worth something. So perceiving someone as being worthy is definitely worth something in this case. Therefore, to take this perception to the absolute extreme in saying that this person is worthy of a perfect life and immortality is the best sense of worth you can have. To say that we are not worthy of a perfect life and immortality is only demeaning our self-worth.

To me, just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. I believe what I just said to be logical and true. If you feel otherwise, then please explain why.

Final Edit: Now let me just say this in conclusion which is that for anyone who has a normal pleasurable life, it might seem to that person that a perfect life of pleasure and immortality might devalue any worth that life and pleasure have. But for someone who has one of the worst lives with severe chronic depression, then having the perfect life of pleasure with immortality would likely mean everything to this person and there would be nothing wrong with it. This would be my case as I have chronic depression.

As cjlr said:
"Presupposisionalism isn't just for Christians anymore"

Weeping

What a stinking pile of horseshit. Try to get out more.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-06-2014, 08:01 PM
Re: RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(04-06-2014 03:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  So what it really comes down to is that all of us are entitled to our own views here and no amount of reasoning can change them. I truly believe that my views are not that of some spoiled whiny cowering brat, but some higher perception of my own inspired by the world of fantasy I love and would be the ideal inspiration for others as well, but apparently it's not.

Wait, you think no reasoning can change Anymore views? Didn't you in your op state I hope to have made you think differently. There would be no purpose for that or much of what you're saying if you believed what you're saying.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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05-06-2014, 11:07 AM (This post was last modified: 05-06-2014 11:13 AM by WitchSabrina.)
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(04-06-2014 03:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  So what it really comes down to is that all of us are entitled to our own views here and no amount of reasoning can change them. I truly believe that my views are not that of some spoiled whiny cowering brat, but some higher perception of my own inspired by the world of fantasy I love and would be the ideal inspiration for others as well, but apparently it's not.


Yes. You are free to move about the cabin. Captain has turned off the no-smoking sign and seatbelts are not required. Speak your mind. Share your opinions and ideas.
No worries.
However, should you speak, tell, express or share something that people question or wish to examine - they TOO - are free to move about the cabin and will share at will.
Got it?

Also - I don't find anything particularly of *reason* you speak of.
So what it really comes down to is that all of us are entitled to our own views here and no amount of reasoning can change them.

What be this "reasoning" you speak of? I didn't see any reasoning. Only someone sharing their ideals. Around these here parts we require a Bit More if you're going to attach the term "reason" to your statement.

Welcome to the forum and the 'how it works' is given freely.
Buck up. You'll be ok. We're actually totally cool people here IF you can stand the heat in the kitchen.


apron?

PS- I ADORE fantasy and spend probably half my life living in my very own fantasy world.........complete with gobblins, fairies, witches and magic. Personally, I have NO issue with people who indulge in fantasy. But..........if you let a fantasy life keep you from paying your water bill......... THEN there's a problem.
Like was explained to you --- if someone sets you on Fire you cannot fantasy your way out of that. Yoooou are fucking On FIRE.............. **flames**

thus.........is the understanding of reality and your Perception of reality.

dig?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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05-06-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(04-06-2014 05:21 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  We all have preferences and the fact that I prefer fantasy over reality is just that (a preference). If I were to use my preference to instead criticize and harm others or refuse to help others who need my help, then I would be some immature spoiled person. But the fact that I am just using this preference because it is an inspiration to me and empowers me, then there is obviously nothing wrong with that.

You may have a point there. I prefer heroin. Oh sure, it's a slippery slope but, what the fuck ... it is an inspiration to me and empowers me, there is obviously nothing wrong with that. Dodgy
***
It is possible you've heard people here attempting to suggest to you that fantasy over reality will not help you solve your problems in any way.
Fantasy will not alleviate real pain - it will only give you more shit you will be hassled to deal with. You will be lumping new pain onto ignored pain. That's gonna sting.
Fantasy will not help you relate to others rather, it will only succeed in distancing you from others. Then you'll beat yourself up about it... causing more self loathing and sad shit to come down on you. It will eventually drive you further into depression. Fantasy just sets up a continual cycle of depression to forever pile on the shit.

Take the reins yourself and stop the fucking horse. Dodgy

(04-06-2014 05:21 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  As for how I wish to live my life, I choose to make the best of this life while having this attitude (as it is who I am and who I wish to be). Again, as I said, nothing wrong with that either.

You want approval for trying to convince yourself that it's ok to do harm to your psyche by locking yourself into a delusion? Delusions are all pretty much the same and since many here were previously desperate to escape delusion... I don't see that going over real big here.

You want to hear yes when you know the answer is no.
Stop trying to manipulate people for approval... it's what immature spoiled brats do. Yes, it's that transparent. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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05-06-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(05-06-2014 02:10 PM)kim Wrote:  
(04-06-2014 05:21 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  We all have preferences and the fact that I prefer fantasy over reality is just that (a preference). If I were to use my preference to instead criticize and harm others or refuse to help others who need my help, then I would be some immature spoiled person. But the fact that I am just using this preference because it is an inspiration to me and empowers me, then there is obviously nothing wrong with that.

You may have a point there. I prefer heroin. Oh sure, it's a slippery slope but, what the fuck ... it is an inspiration to me and empowers me, there is obviously nothing wrong with that. Dodgy
***
It is possible you've heard people here attempting to suggest to you that fantasy over reality will not help you solve your problems in any way.
Fantasy will not alleviate real pain - it will only give you more shit you will be hassled to deal with. You will be lumping new pain onto ignored pain. That's gonna sting.
Fantasy will not help you relate to others rather, it will only succeed in distancing you from others. Then you'll beat yourself up about it... causing more self loathing and sad shit to come down on you. It will eventually drive you further into depression. Fantasy just sets up a continual cycle of depression to forever pile on the shit.

Take the reins yourself and stop the fucking horse. Dodgy

(04-06-2014 05:21 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  As for how I wish to live my life, I choose to make the best of this life while having this attitude (as it is who I am and who I wish to be). Again, as I said, nothing wrong with that either.

You want approval for trying to convince yourself that it's ok to do harm to your psyche by locking yourself into a delusion? Delusions are all pretty much the same and since many here were previously desperate to escape delusion... I don't see that going over real big here.

You want to hear yes when you know the answer is no.
Stop trying to manipulate people for approval... it's what immature spoiled brats do. Yes, it's that transparent. Drinking Beverage



I may need new eyeglasses........... I accidentally read: "stop fucking the horse"


in other news............ your post is great!Thumbsup

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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05-06-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(05-06-2014 03:31 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(05-06-2014 02:10 PM)kim Wrote:  You may have a point there. I prefer heroin. Oh sure, it's a slippery slope but, what the fuck ... it is an inspiration to me and empowers me, there is obviously nothing wrong with that. Dodgy
***
It is possible you've heard people here attempting to suggest to you that fantasy over reality will not help you solve your problems in any way.
Fantasy will not alleviate real pain - it will only give you more shit you will be hassled to deal with. You will be lumping new pain onto ignored pain. That's gonna sting.
Fantasy will not help you relate to others rather, it will only succeed in distancing you from others. Then you'll beat yourself up about it... causing more self loathing and sad shit to come down on you. It will eventually drive you further into depression. Fantasy just sets up a continual cycle of depression to forever pile on the shit.

Take the reins yourself and stop the fucking horse. Dodgy


You want approval for trying to convince yourself that it's ok to do harm to your psyche by locking yourself into a delusion? Delusions are all pretty much the same and since many here were previously desperate to escape delusion... I don't see that going over real big here.

You want to hear yes when you know the answer is no.
Stop trying to manipulate people for approval... it's what immature spoiled brats do. Yes, it's that transparent. Drinking Beverage



I may need new eyeglasses........... I accidentally read: "stop fucking the horse"


in other news............ your post is great!Thumbsup

And now somehow, I find you even sexier. How is that possible ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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05-06-2014, 11:23 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(05-06-2014 03:31 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I may need new eyeglasses........... I accidentally read: "stop fucking the horse"

Ha - actually, I read it that way just now, too - right before I read this - I almost did a spit-take! Laugh out load

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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05-06-2014, 11:27 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(04-06-2014 01:11 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Shut up and listen. You don't have to put it any other way then you already have. The issue here is not that we don't understand what you are saying. The issue here is that what you are saying is fucking stupid.
It's fallacious pseudointellectual word salad and an appeal to comfortable delusions as being superior to reality. How you want reality to be is utterly irrelevant to how reality actually is.

You can word it in any nonsensical way you want but all you have said of substance in both your threads is that reality makes sad and scared so you going to wrap yourself in a safety blanket of delusions. Grow. Up. Bitch.


Yeah, I really don't want to ever get into an argument with this guy. ^^

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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06-06-2014, 01:41 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(05-06-2014 11:27 PM)Charis Wrote:  
(04-06-2014 01:11 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Shut up and listen. You don't have to put it any other way then you already have. The issue here is not that we don't understand what you are saying. The issue here is that what you are saying is fucking stupid.
It's fallacious pseudointellectual word salad and an appeal to comfortable delusions as being superior to reality. How you want reality to be is utterly irrelevant to how reality actually is.

You can word it in any nonsensical way you want but all you have said of substance in both your threads is that reality makes sad and scared so you going to wrap yourself in a safety blanket of delusions. Grow. Up. Bitch.


Yeah, I really don't want to ever get into an argument with this guy. ^^

No worry about that my dear Haha
I currently live in an extremely small, fervently religious, town and I'm the only atheist fluent in the subject (there are other atheists but they don't know TAG from Kalam) so I get a lot of practice heh

Also like a block and a half from the Jehovah's Hall Tongue
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06-06-2014, 01:56 AM
The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
I have actually stopped talking to people who found out I was in philosophy and really wanted to argue the Kalam.

And they were in philosophy. If you're in philosophy, and don't see a problem with ontological arguments, something is wrong.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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