The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
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09-06-2014, 11:13 AM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2014 11:16 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(09-06-2014 08:31 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I'm an atheist with the mentality of a religious person who seeks self-enlightenment.
You can't fool yourself into enlightenment. What your doing is building a psychological fort built on ignorance and willful self-delusion. No knowledge of self or reality comes from that.

Quote:I still have reason to believe what I'm saying because I believe what I'm saying is logical and true.

Your reason for believing that what you say is logical is that you believe its logical? That's not circular at all. You have refuted nothing at all because all your arguments are fallacious and demonstrably so.

You have no respect for science at all. You're delusional, and you're still wrong. Pseudo-psychology and fallacies are all you got son.
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09-06-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(09-06-2014 11:13 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 08:31 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I'm an atheist with the mentality of a religious person who seeks self-enlightenment.
You can't fool yourself into enlightenment. What your doing is building a psychological fort built on ignorance and willful self-delusion. No knowledge of self or reality comes from that.

Quote:I still have reason to believe what I'm saying because I believe what I'm saying is logical and true.

Your reason for believing that what you say is logical is that you believe its logical? That's not circular at all. You have refuted nothing at all because all your arguments are fallacious and demonstrably so.

You have no respect for science at all. You're delusional, and you're still wrong. Pseudo-psychology and fallacies are all you got son.



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09-06-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(09-06-2014 11:13 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Your reason for believing that what you say is logical is that you believe its logical? That's not circular at all. You have refuted nothing at all because all your arguments are fallacious and demonstrably so.

You have no respect for science at all. You're delusional, and you're still wrong. Pseudo-psychology and fallacies are all you got son.
I still have every right to believe what I'm saying to be logical and true because you have not given me a logical explanation of why I have not refuted your reasonings. You might be thinking that what you've just said to me against my reasonings does, in fact, already refute my reasonings, but it doesn't.

But I have two sets of reasonings here (that do contradict one another), but I'll explain them here independently:

Reasoning 1: You say that recognizing the reality of a situation is always a good thing, but there are in fact things in life that recognizing the reality of the situation is either pointless or actually does much more harm than good. I am proof of this because I would have, in fact, lived a life of greater pleasure and stress coping if I still believed in religion and me being an atheist has brought me no such things. As for the concept that anyone can change and that I can change my attitude, you cannot always completely change your attitude (for many they can only change their attitude up to a certain degree while still living their lives filled with negativity). I feel that I could definitely be one of these people because if your mind has been wired a certain way your entire life (which would be my case as I have lived a positive life through my perception of fantasy and believing in religion), then completely rewiring your brain to live a positive life through atheism just might be an impossible goal. Therefore, you would of been better off believing religion in this case.

Reasoning 2: Your reasoning that it would be a good idea for someone who believes in religion to convert over to atheism is that the more pleasure you recieve from this belief, the more your life will be filled with negativity when you realize it's not true and that the sooner they convert over to atheism, the better. But why would living a life of pleasure (no matter what it is) make you more suspectible to negative emotions? If anything, it should make you more immune to depression because, again, the more pleasure you have (positive outlook on life), the better you are able to overcome depression. Please explain this in terms of science.
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09-06-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(09-06-2014 01:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 11:13 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Your reason for believing that what you say is logical is that you believe its logical? That's not circular at all. You have refuted nothing at all because all your arguments are fallacious and demonstrably so.

You have no respect for science at all. You're delusional, and you're still wrong. Pseudo-psychology and fallacies are all you got son.
I still have every right to believe what I'm saying to be logical and true because you have not given me a logical explanation of why I have not refuted your reasonings. You might be thinking that what you've just said to me against my reasonings does, in fact, already refute my reasonings, but it doesn't.

But I have two sets of reasonings here (that do contradict one another), but I'll explain them here independently:

Reasoning 1: You say that recognizing the reality of a situation is always a good thing, but there are in fact things in life that recognizing the reality of the situation is either pointless or actually does much more harm than good. I am proof of this because I would have, in fact, lived a life of greater pleasure and stress coping if I still believed in religion and me being an atheist has brought me no such things. As for the concept that anyone can change and that I can change my attitude, you cannot always completely change your attitude (for many they can only change their attitude up to a certain degree while still living their lives filled with negativity). I feel that I could definitely be one of these people because if your mind has been wired a certain way your entire life (which would be my case as I have lived a positive life through my perception of fantasy and believing in religion), then completely rewiring your brain to live a positive life through atheism just might be an impossible goal. Therefore, you would of been better off believing religion in this case.

Reasoning 2: Your reasoning that it would be a good idea for someone who believes in religion to convert over to atheism is that the more pleasure you recieve from this belief, the more your life will be filled with negativity when you realize it's not true and that the sooner they convert over to atheism, the better. But why would living a life of pleasure (no matter what it is) make you more suspectible to negative emotions? If anything, it should make you more immune to depression because, again, the more pleasure you have (positive outlook on life), the better you are able to overcome depression. Please explain this in terms of science.



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09-06-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(09-06-2014 01:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Reasoning 2: Your reasoning that it would be a good idea for someone who believes in religion to convert over to atheism is that the more pleasure you recieve from this belief, the more your life will be filled with negativity when you realize it's not true and that the sooner they convert over to atheism, the better.


I can not speak for anyone here but myself... I suggest you do the same.

As I said I can't speak for anyone else but, I have never EVER thought it "...a good idea for someone who believes in religion to convert over to atheism...". You are trying to attribute your own thoughts to others... and these thoughts are confusing you.

(09-06-2014 01:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But why would living a life of pleasure (no matter what it is) make you more suspectible to negative emotions? If anything, it should make you more immune to depression because, again, the more pleasure you have (positive outlook on life), the better you are able to overcome depression. Please explain this in terms of science.

Hey, you know what? Go right ahead and live in your delusion.... as long as you don't involve anyone here, it's none of anyone's business.

Go ahead. You're done here - piss off. Drinking Beverage

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10-06-2014, 12:46 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(09-06-2014 01:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I still have every right to believe what I'm saying to be logical and true because you have not given me a logical explanation of why I have not refuted your reasonings. You might be thinking that what you've just said to me against my reasonings does, in fact, already refute my reasonings, but it doesn't.
Nice to see your applying your delusions to the goings on in this forum now too.Rolleyes I have in fact given you a logical explanation as to why you have not refuted me. You haven't bloody tried to refute me, you have just said "nuh-uh!!". You don't offer arguments you just repeat the same assertions you made at the beginning. Most of this thread and your last one has been the same post over and over and over and over.
Your reason for believing you're logical is that you believe you are logical but we already established that that's a.) fallacious b.) circular c.) that you are fucking willing to pretend made up shit to make your self feel better. Your getting called out on your bullshit assertions and your doing exactly that right now. Being delusional, and fantasizing your right.

See this is exactly the problem with your mindset: it does not value evidence, science, or reason. It's a collection of baseless assertions, delusions of grandeur, and a willful ignorance of reality. It's no damn wonder you STILL think your right, despite you are at odds with the entire body of mental health experts and have yet to provide a single argument that is not just an assertion that you are right.

Your logic is fallacious, your premisses are fallacious and your conclusions are fucking fallacious.


Here is a question for you: how can one tell which of your statements are legitimate and which are just symptoms of your self-aggrandizing delusions?

It's like screaming at the Wailing Wall with you. FrustyFrusty
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10-06-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
I am going to add something here for people who think that atheism has more value than any amount of pleasure through religious belief. No amount of intelligence or great things we do in life will ever make up for a lack of pleasure because in order to have such value towards these things is to have pleasure in the first place (as pleasure is what allows us to give value in terms of emotion towards these things). So it would be illogical to say that these things have greater value than our pleasure. Now if you were to somehow have value towards something with no pleasure, then this value would be nothing as it is nothing more than a thought. Pleasure is what gives any notion of value life and without pleasure, it would be completely dead. Therefore, pleasure is the only thing that matters and any notion of value is just a thought and nothing more.
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10-06-2014, 12:47 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(10-06-2014 12:35 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I am going to add something here for people who think that atheism has more value than any amount of pleasure through religious belief. No amount of intelligence or great things we do in life will ever make up for a lack of cocaine because in order to have such value towards these things is to have cocaine in the first place (as cocaine is what allows us to give value in terms of emotion towards these things). So it would be illogical to say that these things have greater value than our pleasure. Now if you were to somehow have value towards something with no cocaine, then this value would be nothing as it is nothing more than a thought. Cocaine is what gives any notion of value life and without cocaine, it would be completely dead. Therefore, cocaine is the only thing that matters and any notion of value is just a thought and nothing more.

Notice how that does not change your message? You are using an addicts defense mechanism and nothing more.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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10-06-2014, 01:00 PM
The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(10-06-2014 12:35 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I am going to add something here for people who think that atheism has more value than any amount of pleasure through religious belief. No amount of intelligence or great things we do in life will ever make up for a lack of pleasure because in order to have such value towards these things is to have pleasure in the first place (as pleasure is what allows us to give value in terms of emotion towards these things). So it would be illogical to say that these things have greater value than our pleasure. Now if you were to somehow have value towards something with no pleasure, then this value would be nothing as it is nothing more than a thought. Pleasure is what gives any notion of value life and without pleasure, it would be completely dead. Therefore, pleasure is the only thing that matters and any notion of value is just a thought and nothing more.

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10-06-2014, 01:07 PM
Re: RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(10-06-2014 12:35 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I am going to add something here for people who think that atheism has more value than any amount of pleasure through religious belief. No amount of intelligence or great things we do in life will ever make up for a lack of pleasure because in order to have such value towards these things is to have pleasure in the first place (as pleasure is what allows us to give value in terms of emotion towards these things). So it would be illogical to say that these things have greater value than our pleasure. Now if you were to somehow have value towards something with no pleasure, then this value would be nothing as it is nothing more than a thought. Pleasure is what gives any notion of value life and without pleasure, it would be completely dead. Therefore, pleasure is the only thing that matters and any notion of value is just a thought and nothing more.

That's a value judgment on pleasure by the way you understand it. Other people can and do have values that pervasive enough for action. And basically, pleasure isn't the scientific determining factor of keeping life going. Not all life has.a base if pleasure, so your concept isn't of any objective standard which you appear to present your statement from.

It may be how you see it and fine go ahead and accept it for yourself. A non effective effort to try to engage others with a midly coherent message isn't going to accomplish altering points of view.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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