The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
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03-06-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 08:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 08:31 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  There is no unit of measure for this much delusion.

He's roughly Half a Jeremy Walker.

I give it 0.74 frankksj's out of excubitor.

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03-06-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 08:35 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 08:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  He's roughly Half a Jeremy Walker.

I give it 0.74 frankksj's out of excubitor.

So .347 on TheWord scale?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-06-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 08:35 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  In conclusion, I wish to know if my post sort of changed your views as an atheist (not in terms of being someone who is more religious), but in other ways? If so or if not, could you explain why?

To be honest I'm not even sure what your central message is. How does this affect my life and what is your argument proposing that I do?
I'm going to explain why I think so. The scientific explanation (reality) of our personality may be that it is something "as is" with no value and worth, but the real reality in this case is whatever you make of it. If I view my personality as something of great value and worth, then it will have great value and worth. If I view it as something insignificant or inferior, then it will be just that. So you have two choices: you can either demean yourself as a human being or make yourself better. Therefore, why would anyone want to demean themselves or anyone else by viewing themselves and everyone else as insignificant and that they have no value and are not worthy of a perfect life with immortality? Of course, even without having such value or worth towards human personality, you may have the positive perception of making the best of this life anyway. But even with the positive attitude of making the best of this life, the fact still remains that who you are as a person and how you view everyone else has been demeaned as something of less value and worth.
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03-06-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
Through the practical and innovative uses of science and engineering we have reduced disease in the more industrialized areas of the world. We have living conditions that are better than we had 50 yrs ago.

We made living conditions better because we value the health and well being of our fellow man and we also profited from it.

Our laws also indicate what we value in society. We aren't trying to reach some kind of perfection. I think we all want a better life for the next generation than the one we had, but the way its going, that probably won't happen.

Climate change will alter our lifestyle within 50 yrs and lots of people will.....you know what, I'm not even going to go there.

Atheists are individuals who share one common answer to one question. Do you believe a god exists ? Our answer is no.

Any other generalizations you want to make about atheists is probably going to not be completely accurate, so stop

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-06-2014, 09:26 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
Since atheism is about being logical, I am just trying to have a logical reasoning discussion. I believe that my statement is logical in saying that we should value who we are as people and that we should have an elevated sense of value and worth towards our and everyone else's personality regardless of the fact that this life itself says otherwise (again, life saying that we are just insignificant creatures who are not worthy of a perfect life and immortality). If anyone can give me a logical reason that opposes this, I would be interested to hear it and attempt to logically reason with it.
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03-06-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 09:26 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I believe that my statement is logical in saying that we should value who we are as people and that we should have an elevated sense of value and worth towards our and everyone else's personality regardless of the fact that this life itself says otherwise (again, life saying that we are just insignificant creatures who are not worthy of a perfect life and immortality). If anyone can give me a logical reason that opposes this, I would be interested to hear it and attempt to logically reason with it.


The problem comes with your assumption that there is something external to the human race by which human life can be judged.

We each need to find our own worth in whatever ways we can. If all life on Earth was eradicated by a nearby supernova it is is perfectly possible that no sentient being would ever know about our existence afterwards. Therefore the sense of worth must come from members of the human race. And who is to say that for many people it doesn't. Historically speaking the value placed on a human life has been growing to unprecedented proportions. Standards in animal welfare have been increasing too. This has come about due to science, technology and prosperity.

Science dispels ignorance. Technology gives us the freedom to value life. Prosperity gives us the motivation to.

And it can all just as quickly disappear if life becomes harsher, say because we replete all the finite resources available to us and this is currently the biggest risk to the progress that we have made. So perhaps what you should really be arguing is that we should be valuing the Earth and the scientific and technological progress. If that is what you start arguing for then you will find a lot of people agreeing with you.
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03-06-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 09:26 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Since atheism is about being logical, I am just trying to have a logical reasoning discussion. I believe that my statement is logical in saying that we should value who we are as people and that we should have an elevated sense of value and worth towards our and everyone else's personality regardless of the fact that this life itself says otherwise (again, life saying that we are just insignificant creatures who are not worthy of a perfect life and immortality). If anyone can give me a logical reason that opposes this, I would be interested to hear it and attempt to logically reason with it.

No, atheism is the lack of belief in any gods. That's it. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-06-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 09:38 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 09:26 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I believe that my statement is logical in saying that we should value who we are as people and that we should have an elevated sense of value and worth towards our and everyone else's personality regardless of the fact that this life itself says otherwise (again, life saying that we are just insignificant creatures who are not worthy of a perfect life and immortality). If anyone can give me a logical reason that opposes this, I would be interested to hear it and attempt to logically reason with it.


The problem comes with your assumption that there is something external to the human race by which human life can be judged.

We each need to find our own worth in whatever ways we can. If all life on Earth was eradicated by a nearby supernova it is is perfectly possible that no sentient being would ever know about our existence afterwards. Therefore the sense of worth must come from members of the human race. And who is to say that for many people it doesn't. Historically speaking the value placed on a human life has been growing to unprecedented proportions. Standards in animal welfare have been increasing too. This has come about due to science, technology and prosperity.

Science dispels ignorance. Technology gives us the freedom to value life. Prosperity gives us the motivation to.

And it can all just as quickly disappear if life becomes harsher, say because we replete all the finite resources available to us and this is currently the biggest risk to the progress that we have made. So perhaps what you should really be arguing is that we should be valuing the Earth and the scientific and technological progress. If that is what you start arguing for then you will find a lot of people agreeing with you.
To me, just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. I believe this to be logical and true. If you disagree, please explain why.
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03-06-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  To me, just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. I believe what I just said to be logical and true. If you feel otherwise, then please explain why.

Because time, like money or anything else, has diminishing marginal utility. And believing that you have unlimited time diminishes the value of the present. Your belief in immortality is what devalues life.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2014, 01:02 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 11:42 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  To me, just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise.---

What do you mean by immortality? When one dies, one is dead; end of story.
***

It seems Mozart Link, you may have some personal misperceptions of "atheists" in a general sense. It's not as if all people who lack faith have anything else in common.

I don't feel or see myself as insignificant or superior; I just am... just like everyone else. I and many other atheist people I know don't seem nearly as bummed as you seem to about life. Maybe you have some depression or just a negative, outlook. But just because you have a negative outlook, doesn't mean others do.

The only person you can know about is you and the only person you can control is you. Probably might be a good idea to inform people about you rather than tell others about themselves... you stand a better chance of being accurate.

Welcome to the forum. Smile

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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