The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
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03-06-2014, 04:39 PM
The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 04:14 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 04:07 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  From the perspective of a human being, I value other human beings. From the perspective of the universe, human beings have no value.
But you are a human being--not the universe. Therefore, you should have the perspective of a human being and not the perspective of this universe.

And yet we can, and your argument is invalid.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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03-06-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
But I'm going to bring up my point again because it all comes down to this which is that just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. Sure, not many atheists would confer meaning and value to immortality and perfection, but again, just the act of perceiving that you're not worth it is obviously demeaning from the best possible sense of value and worth you can have. This point I have made still logically stands and there has been no one so far to logically disprove this.
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03-06-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But I'm going to bring up my point again because it all comes down to this which is that just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. Sure, not many atheists would confer meaning and value to immortality and perfection, but again, just the act of perceiving that you're not worth it is obviously demeaning from the best possible sense of value and worth you can have. This point I have made still logically stands and there has been no one so far to logically disprove this.

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No, friend, you cannot presuppose an objective yet nonsensical "best" system of value/perception, not to mention an incoherent and inadequately explored concept of "immortality"...

Well; rather, you certainly can, in the sense that we cannot stop you, but to pretend there is anything logical therein seems, shall we say, misguided at best.

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03-06-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But I'm going to bring up my point again because it all comes down to this which is that just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. Sure, not many atheists would confer meaning and value to immortality and perfection, but again, just the act of perceiving that you're not worth it is obviously demeaning from the best possible sense of value and worth you can have. This point I have made still logically stands and there has been no one so far to logically disprove this.

What you think and/or believe is not logic. It is merely your belief.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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03-06-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 06:43 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 06:03 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  We as human beings are superior

Superior to what and how?

Well I know what is superior to us.

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03-06-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 04:14 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 04:07 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  From the perspective of a human being, I value other human beings. From the perspective of the universe, human beings have no value.
But you are a human being--not the universe. Therefore, you should have the perspective of a human being and not the perspective of this universe.

I do have the perspective of a human being, and therefore I value human value and worth.


You seem to want to misrepresent what others say.
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03-06-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But I'm going to bring up my point again because it all comes down to this which is that just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. Sure, not many atheists would confer meaning and value to immortality and perfection, but again, just the act of perceiving that you're not worth it is obviously demeaning from the best possible sense of value and worth you can have. This point I have made still logically stands and there has been no one so far to logically disprove this.


Why do you think immortality is perfection? Because it says so in some book written 2000 years ago? I don't want anything to do with immortality, even if it were a proven condition after death. And it isn't because I'm not worthy or have no sense of value. No, it's the complete opposite. I value life more because this is the only life we'll have. My life and everyone elses life is worth far, far more because this is the one life we have. You theists have it all ass backwards. There is much greater value in the short and sweet than in the eternal.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-06-2014, 05:40 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
As far as an argument against what I just said in my previous post, you could say something such as that not being worthy of perfection and immortality does not demean in any way human value or worth and that we live a life of full worth and value independent of this and is something that is not subjected to the fact that we are not worthy of perfection and immortality.

Even though this is good and all, the fact is that it holds no logic in saying that we are not worthy of perfection and immortality because if your value and worth is 100%, then that means you are worthy of 100% positive things to happen for you (in this case, one of those things being a life of perfection and immortality).


(03-06-2014 05:27 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But I'm going to bring up my point again because it all comes down to this which is that just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise. Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things. Sure, not many atheists would confer meaning and value to immortality and perfection, but again, just the act of perceiving that you're not worth it is obviously demeaning from the best possible sense of value and worth you can have. This point I have made still logically stands and there has been no one so far to logically disprove this.


Why do you think immortality is perfection? Because it says so in some book written 2000 years ago? I don't want anything to do with immortality, even if it were a proven condition after death. And it isn't because I'm not worthy or have no sense of value. No, it's the complete opposite. I value life more because this is the only life we'll have. My life and everyone elses life is worth far, far more because this is the one life we have. You theists have it all ass backwards. There is much greater value in the short and sweet than in the eternal.
Immortality is perfection because your lifespan is perfect and there is no problems with it which is why you would live forever. Also, an eternal life would not devalue anything because you could either choose to be lazy and not do anything and feel less motivated knowing that this life is eternal, or you could feel empowered by it and use that empowerment to be motivated to do more things in helping others and yourself, resulting in feelings of even more empowerment for yourself and others (a positive vicious cycle of empowerment, enjoyment, and in doing more and more things for yourself and others).
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03-06-2014, 05:44 PM
RE: The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 05:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Immortality is perfection because your lifespan is perfect and there is no problems with it which is why you would live forever. Also, an eternal life would not devalue anything because you could either choose to be lazy and not do anything and feel less motivated knowing that this life is eternal, or you could feel empowered by it and use that empowerment to be motivated to do more things in helping others and yourself, resulting in feelings of even more empowerment for yourself and others (a positive vicious cycle of empowerment, enjoyment, and in doing more and more things for yourself and others).

Hey.

Bud.

Saying something does not establish something. Assertion is not substantiation.

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03-06-2014, 05:45 PM
The Perfect Ideal World Created By Science
(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But I'm going to bring up my point again because it all comes down to this which is that just the act of perceiving someone as not worthy of a perfect life of immortality is, in fact, having a lesser sense of human value and worth no matter how much value and worth you have otherwise.

Anyone can perceive the "what if" that human beings are worthy of a perfect life of immortality, why do you think we have medicine? This is absolute nonsense.

(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Because if you had the best possible sense of value and worth possible, you would obviously view yourself and others as being worthy of these things.

Are you kidding me? Secular people value human life more than you fuckers do. Have you completely forgotten about the crusades, the inquisition, the holocaust, and things like this:

http://mobile.news.com.au/world/europe/s...6939959324

You're practically foaming at the mouth at the thought of the next genocide you could commit, and idolize a genocidal maniac. What kind of conception of the "value of human life" is that?

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(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Sure, not many atheists would confer meaning and value to immortality and perfection, but again,

Really? Source?

(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  just the act of perceiving that you're not worth it is obviously demeaning from the best possible sense of value and worth you can have.

You think your beliefs influence realty? You think no atheist is capable of indulging in the same fantasy you do and seeing any value inherent in it?

(03-06-2014 05:01 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  This point I have made still logically stands and there has been no one so far to logically disprove this.

It doesn't have to be logically disproved. It's not logical.

And here's how much the devout value human life:

[Image: yha7uset.jpg]

The more religious a given group is, the higher the murder rate will be. Statistics show this repeatedly.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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