The Problem With Prophecy
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12-05-2013, 04:21 AM
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
Fucking Bucky... like a pocket full of shells in a bonfire. Never know when he's gonna go off. Tongue

"The problem with prophecy" is that the dang Christians killed all the prophets. Now they got nobody to regulate their crazy-assed shit. Thumbsup

As for "fulfilled prophecy," ya can't even talk to those people.

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12-05-2013, 08:29 PM
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
(12-05-2013 02:12 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 01:09 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are no scholar, and I'm not going to argue with someone who has no knowledge of the texts. He (actually it was THEY, as every scholar knows Isaiah was a combo job of at least 3 different people), were simply giving advice. "Do thus and so, or thus and so may happen". Not, "I will be proven right if something happens". The role of a prophet was not to predict the future. It became that much later. Have you even ever taken a intro course to the Bible ?

Can you hold an argument with someone without insulting them? I know it's common here to put down your opponent, and even applauded often, but it's bad form in a debate. Perhaps I ought to say "I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know how to argue properly". But that would be as irrational as putting down someone's argument because they are "no scholar"... I'm not citing myself as an authority, so my own scholarship isn't at issue here.

Of course I've taken intro courses to the Bible. Stop being condescending. Are you even willing to entertain the idea that you might be wrong about a held belief?

Isaiah was only one example. There are several examples of "prophets" who made claims about what would happen in the future, even if "their role" was not to do that. "My role" as a maintenance worker by trade is not to discuss atheist issues, and yet I clearly do it.

Fallacy of the false analogy, obviously.
Fundamentalists claim that one of the essential roles of a prophet was to foretell the future. Your essential role is not to discuss anything at work.

I was simply asking for references. You never provide any. Just assertions. So how would anyone know you took any courses in it ?
One of the Isaiahs said he had a vision, and described it. That is far different than someone claiming 2000 years later that some of it may have happened as providing evidence that his god has some authority, and that is evidence for it.
"Talking about the future" or using the future tense" is not the same as believers 200 years later slapping a "presentist" meaning of their words, usually in cultural ignorance, and using them to support their crazy beliefs. For example the Isaiah line about "a virgin shall conceive" has been totally taken out of context, mistranslated, and used to "prove" Jebus was the intent of his "prediction".
In fact, it was nothing of the sort. He was talking about the king in HIS time and one of his wives having a baby. The entire business of that (as "prophecy"), is complete bullshit. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rgin+birth It's a recurring pattern with fundamentalists.
I'm perfectly willing to accept I'm wrong. This is not peculiar belief, (even if Please Jesus, and you, would like to think so). It's taught every day of the week in institutions of higher learning. It's common knowledge, among scholars.

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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13-05-2013, 08:15 AM
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
Quote:Can you hold an argument with someone without insulting them?
No, he cannot.

The other problem for BB is that a mere grade school education is enough to see Bible prophecy is foretelling of events. Here it is in a paraphrase version to assist him:

Isaiah 46:10 - Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish.

And here is an NT understanding of OT prophecy:

1 Peter 1: "10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things."
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13-05-2013, 10:21 PM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2013 10:36 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
edit.
Not worth talking to.
Fundamentalist bullshit.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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14-05-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
Interesting. Didn't you mean to say, J, D, E, or P wrote something that contradicts what I said many times in this forum?

And Peter (or whoever you think wrote Peter) did, too?

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14-05-2013, 09:02 AM
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
I said what I meant.

The sources of J E P D ( and the R) didn't "write" anything. They assembled their traditions. Some of the various sources contradict the other sources. It's an ancient human cultural work, subject to human error.
Obviously someone lacks even a kindergarten level of education on the subject, and is not worth discussing anything with him.
He also said he was not going to interact any longer. Damn. I thought for once, he was telling the truth. Weeping

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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14-05-2013, 02:38 PM
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
Quote:The sources of J E P D ( and the R) didn't "write" anything. They assembled their traditions. Some of the various sources contradict the other sources. It's an ancient human cultural work, subject to human error.

What is your empirical evidence for the above statement?
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14-05-2013, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2013 01:31 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
Just as I thought. No education. Since when did you, of all people start even thinking about "empirical evidence. You are all about it's opposite.
In the 1950's, (your general time frame) hundreds of the most conservative Biblical Scholars ALL signed off on it, in WF Albright's "The Interpreters Bible". 15 Volumes.
Go read it. You might actually learn something, if that is possible. You can read, right ?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-Look
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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15-05-2013, 09:08 AM
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
(14-05-2013 02:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Just as I thought. No education. Since when did you, of all people start even thinking about "empirical evidence. You are all about it's opposite.
In the 1950's, (your general time frame) hundreds of the most conservative Biblical Scholars ALL signed off on it, in WF Albright's "The Interpreters Bible". 15 Volumes.
Go read it. You might actually learn something, if that is possible. You can read, right ?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-Look
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

Perhaps sir, we may have a civil discourse again, since you are no longer cursing at me and have limited your ad hom today to "You can read, right?"

I will patiently explain to you once again that having first studied out JDEP 20 years ago and more as a new convert studying religion in a secular university, I became aware (and remain aware) that there is no empirical evidence for JDEP® and only textual criticism.

I could likewise read any book, find grammar, language and style changes, and doubt authorship. For example, Ian Fleming died in 1964, leaving behind (so it was said) an unfinished manuscript of his last novel, The Man With The Golden Gun. Debate ranges today as to whether Kingsley Amis, Mr. Fleming, etc. finished the manuscript before publication. The publisher's and the writer's heirs aren't talking about the issue.

In other words, there is no empirical evidence on the issue. Face it, I could say Darwin wrote about "survival of the fittest" since he ghost wrote Herbert Spencer's work and then you'd say "What is your empirical evidence for this fraud?" and I'd say what you say, "Top scholars have read Spencer's work and concluded he had a team of redactors on it..." - JDEP theory is baloney.
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15-05-2013, 09:50 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2013 11:15 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Problem With Prophecy
(15-05-2013 09:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 02:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Just as I thought. No education. Since when did you, of all people start even thinking about "empirical evidence. You are all about it's opposite.
In the 1950's, (your general time frame) hundreds of the most conservative Biblical Scholars ALL signed off on it, in WF Albright's "The Interpreters Bible". 15 Volumes.
Go read it. You might actually learn something, if that is possible. You can read, right ?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-Look
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

Perhaps sir, we may have a civil discourse again, since you are no longer cursing at me and have limited your ad hom today to "You can read, right?"

I will patiently explain to you once again that having first studied out JDEP 20 years ago and more as a new convert studying religion in a secular university, I became aware (and remain aware) that there is no empirical evidence for JDEP® and only textual criticism.

I could likewise read any book, find grammar, language and style changes, and doubt authorship. For example, Ian Fleming died in 1964, leaving behind (so it was said) an unfinished manuscript of his last novel, The Man With The Golden Gun. Debate ranges today as to whether Kingsley Amis, Mr. Fleming, etc. finished the manuscript before publication. The publisher's and the writer's heirs aren't talking about the issue.

In other words, there is no empirical evidence on the issue. Face it, I could say Darwin wrote about "survival of the fittest" since he ghost wrote Herbert Spencer's work and then you'd say "What is your empirical evidence for this fraud?" and I'd say what you say, "Top scholars have read Spencer's work and concluded he had a team of redactors on it..." - JDEP theory is baloney.

Nothing is true because you, without any references, say it is true. I gave you references, and you have no advanced degree, or any references. In short, you have not an ounce of credibility. None at all. There are literally thousands of PhD's who disagree with your "baloney". You are a sad fundie bullshitter. You NEVER support your crap with references. Go get an education. There are thousands of elements of separate evidence and archaeology that supports it. You have no coherent alternative. Moses certainly did not write it. If you think he did prove it.










Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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