The Problem of Good
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07-12-2015, 07:02 AM
The Problem of Good
Theist apologists frequently cite free will as being the answer to the problem of evil. It's important that we have the choice to do bad things, even though we're not supposed to do those bad things. So, when people cause problems, we are to blame, even if God could have prevented it.

The problem of this bit of apologetics is it doesn't mesh with the other half of what they claim to believe. It doesn't take good into account. People are always praising God for things that people do. I'm constantly hearing praises for getting a new job, getting better after medical treatment, or doing well on a test after studying. Every single one of these things hinge on human action. When people do good things, they say it is because of God and not the person (don't want to admit to pride), but it's never God's fault when they do bad things.

So, when everything is going great in the world, apparently God can muck around with that all day long, and anything good that happens ever is because of God. But all the bad stuff is never his fault. That's just us. Their stated belief is that God is such a powerful being that he literally sticks his hands in every facet of life, no matter how small, until it comes to us misbehaving. Then, he takes a strictly hands-off approach, because we need to be free to misbehave. Even more strange is that God gets people jobs, allows medical treatment to work, and lets people recall key facts on tests regardless of their behavior. There seems to be no correlation between a person's behavior and how often God "blesses" them.

If moral autonomy is so precious to the theist apologist, they should stop giving their god credit for the good things people do. I thought people have to be free to make those good choices. This god of special pleading is fatiguing and trite.
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07-12-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
PERSON A: The Lord was watching over me, sending angels to save my life when I crashed into that embankment.

PERSON B: You fool! It was The Lord who knocked you into that embankment in the first place! He tried to kill you! How dare you defy His will!

INSURANCE AGENT: Sorry, but either way your health and auto policies don't cover acts of God. Reality bites. Pay up.

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07-12-2015, 08:37 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
If something bad happens- then god, or the devil, or your choice, it depends on whatever sect of Christianity you ascribe to.

If something good happens- then god.

It's when you stop asserting supernatural forces are at work, the fog clears.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-12-2015, 09:05 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
Sometimes God is responsible for the bad things that happen in your life.
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07-12-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 09:05 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Sometimes God is responsible for the bad things that happen in your life.

Why only sometimes, why won't he stick around like a begging puppy?

There is literally nothing a omnipotent creator god can't be responsible for. Perhaps not "directly" though technically anything that happens was because of him. If one says, well you had the free will to do X.. yes that type of God would of created you with free will so that God is still responsible for it. Good things, bad things, and ambivalent randomness like you find a penny on the ground but then accidentally kick it into the sewer grate level of acts.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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07-12-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 07:02 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, when everything is going great in the world, apparently God can muck around with that all day long, and anything good that happens ever is because of God. But all the bad stuff is never his fault.

Holy shit, in my first marriage I was married to god! Tongue

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-12-2015, 09:36 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 09:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(07-12-2015 09:05 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Sometimes God is responsible for the bad things that happen in your life.

Why only sometimes, why won't he stick around like a begging puppy?

There is literally nothing a omnipotent creator god can't be responsible for. Perhaps not "directly" though technically anything that happens was because of him. If one says, well you had the free will to do X.. yes that type of God would of created you with free will so that God is still responsible for it. Good things, bad things, and ambivalent randomness like you find a penny on the ground but then accidentally kick it into the sewer grate level of acts.
I see your logic and I agree, to an extent . Didn't your parents punish you when you were a child? Why did they punish you? Was it because they hated you or because they loved you? Yes, if someone says that God does not bring any hardship in their life, they are wrong. There are many examples in the bible where God does bad things to people for a good purpose.

Now you are getting very close to understanding the big picture. The next step is asking your self " God is also all knowing yet he created Lucifer with the pride in his heart knowing that he would rebel and take a third of the angels with him. Why?"
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07-12-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 09:05 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Sometimes God is responsible for the bad things that happen in your life.

Can you reliably distinguish between bad things he is responsible for and bad things he isn't?
If so, how?
If not, how do you know he's sometimes responsible?

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07-12-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
Great point, RobbyPants
I am more than happy to discuss with you the problem of good[/b]
(07-12-2015 07:02 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  The problem of this bit of apologetics is it doesn't mesh with the other half of what they claim to believe. It doesn't take good into account. People are always praising God for things that people do. I'm constantly hearing praises for getting a new job, getting better after medical treatment, or doing well on a test after studying. Every single one of these things hinge on human action. When people do good things, they say it is because of God and not the person (don't want to admit to pride), but it's never God's fault when they do bad things.
1) God gives men moral agency - freedom to choose between good and evil, or freedom to act for themselves. (Book of Mormon)
2) But men can not act for themselves save it should be that they were enticed by the one(good) or the other(evil). (Book of Mormon).

So, when we do good we are doing God's work. God inspires us to do good. We thank God for this.
God doesn't inspire us to do evil.
Of course, we should give credit to those who do good to us. We also thank them. We also should do good to them. This way we all do God's work here on Earth.

But I would like to quote something that Paul said long time ago and LDS believe this:
1 Thessalonians 5:
18 in every thing give thanks
Paul didn't say to give thanks only in good things but in every thing.
Hmm, why did he say this?
(07-12-2015 07:02 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  If moral autonomy is so precious to the theist apologist, they should stop giving their god credit for the good things people do. I thought people have to be free to make those good choices. This god of special pleading is fatiguing and trite.
Inspiration, my friend. Inspiration. God inspires us(thanks for this to God) only then we act for ourselves - we are free to choose to follow inspiration and then we do good, or we are free to choose not follow inspiration and then we don't do good.
We are enticed by good or by evil. Only then we act for ourselves.

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07-12-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 07:57 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  PERSON A: The Lord was watching over me, sending angels to save my life when I crashed into that embankment.

PERSON B: You fool! It was The Lord who knocked you into that embankment in the first place! He tried to kill you! How dare you defy His will!

INSURANCE AGENT: Sorry, but either way your health and auto policies don't cover acts of God. Reality bites. Pay up.

I was thinking in the same mode except more of a Double Indemnity clause, however the Mythical Insurance Company in the Sky never pays out for anything, it's never at fault because in the small print you find out the Mythical Insurance Company in the Sky has it's ass and dick covered. It continues to accept new policies for a huge price though. It's an immoral sinkhole of a system.

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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