The Problem of Good
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12-12-2015, 10:39 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(12-12-2015 10:18 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Eternal progression = more made up bullshit
You can say this. I don't mind.Smile

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12-12-2015, 10:45 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(12-12-2015 10:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 10:22 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I must ask where you are getting your definition, no major dictionary I am aware of defines immortality as anything but an ability or state of unending life (or existence).
Most dictionaries I've checked even use 'eternal life' as a synonym for it.
This source calls "Scriptures from God"

Lost.

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12-12-2015, 10:48 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(12-12-2015 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 10:18 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Eternal progression = more made up bullshit
You can say this. I don't mind.Smile

I don't care if you mind. I said it because it's true.
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12-12-2015, 10:57 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(12-12-2015 10:48 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  You can say this. I don't mind.Smile

I don't care if you mind. I said it because it's true.

Sure, you can say this. I don't mind. Big Grin

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13-12-2015, 04:32 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2015 04:38 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: The Problem of Good
(12-12-2015 07:57 PM)Alla Wrote:   "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
He is able.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
He is able and He is willing to stop it. God gives to all His children moral agency. To take away moral agency from us is evil.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
From eternity.


Bullshit.


If I saw a rape about to take place, and I had the power to stop it, I would. This makes me more moral than your god, and 'free-will' does not excuse your god's inaction.


Here's why.


Having 'free-will' is not the same as acting on or imposing that will. God could still allow for 'free-will' (as far as your infantile understanding of it is concerned) and allow for people to desire to rape or even attempt to act on that desire, but stopping an act of rape does not violate 'free-will'.


The rape itself is a violation of the victim's 'free-will', it violates their desire to not be sexually assaulted (otherwise it wouldn't be rape). So god could intervene to preserve the 'free-will' of the victim from being imposed upon by the rapist, it is after all the rapist who is attempting to impose their will onto another; it is the rapist who is initiating a violation of another's 'free-will'.


If god is so fucking caught up on protecting people's 'free-will', he should be intervening to protect people from being raped, as rape is by definition a violation of their desire to not be sexually assaulted.


But of course, god does not stop rape; not because he doesn't care to preserve 'free-will', but rather because he simply does not exist. Drinking Beverage




Another fun thought experiment. By your own logic, if you had a time machine and could travel back to September 1st 2001 with your foreknowledge of the impending attacks on the Twin Towers, attempting to actually stop the high-jacking or warn the FAA or in any other way attempt to intervene and prevent the largest terrorist attack on American soil, would by your own standards be immoral. If your god cannot stop the terrorists for fear of interfering with their 'moral-agency', then neither can you.


This is why you, and your religion, are fucked in the head.

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13-12-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(12-12-2015 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 10:18 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Eternal progression = more made up bullshit
You can say this. I don't mind.Smile

You keep saying this bullshit, it's apparent that your brain is short circuiting, the mods have been way too lenient in your case. But hey, if they just want to fold their arms why you stink up this forum with your bullshit, then so be it.

Might as well invite a few of your friends here Alla, because you apparently have "free agency" to run amok on this forum, hell you could get a few of your chowderhead Mormon loons to join you and turn this forum into the Moron Mormon forum.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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13-12-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(12-12-2015 07:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  No, this is not what I was saying. We choose to do good. That is why we feel happy when we choose to do good. We are created in God's image, so we are good. We are born good. When we choose to do good we choose to do God's work. Even if you are an atheist every time you do good you do God's work.
I thank God for creating me in His image and for giving me moral agency - I can choose to do good on my own. I thank Him for inspirations also.
If you do good 'on your own' sometimes, then you can never know if you were 'inspired' by an outside force or not, meaning praising god for inspiration you didn't get is to steal the moral choice from yourself and give it to god (which he doesn't deserve). If god must always inspire every good act, then you are never good, but only inspiration from god is good.

(12-12-2015 07:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes. It is good to kill those whom God wants to kill. But whom God wanted to kill? The answer: evil people, very evil people. Those people who had sex with their children, who had sex with animals and made their children to do this, who sacrificed their children to idols. These people God was killing in ancient times.
Sometimes He wanted to kill children. There are different reasons for that. But those children are considered to be innocent victims and not sinners. God took them to His kingdom from horrible environment.
God doesn't command any more to His chosen people to kill evil doers. Those times are over.
Hang on... Midiaanites. God says, of the same group, slaughter everyone but the virgin girls, and keep those girls. So the young girl children (a group that bronze-age savages would place a high priority on) are somehow 'innocent victims' but young boy children (not so highly prized) are somehow complicit with their parents being evil?

Note that the male babies were slaughtered, too. Please let me know how a boy six months old is complicit in anything his parents do. Yet that boy was killed along with the rest.

Or is god a misogynist? Take the boys out of a terrible situation, but leave the girls in a bad spot (slaves to the very people who killed their parents, forced to endure whatever treatment they get if they don't happen to want to be in that situation since they loved their parents)?


(12-12-2015 07:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Oddgamer Wrote:Which means after death when you become a god yourself... you'll no longer have any reason to do good,
Oh yes, Gods have very good reason to do good. They want to be happy. Doing good makes Them happy.
To do good brings joy
People doing nasty things also seem to be quite happy. As gods you'd no longer be under the influence of god, otherwise you're not really a god yourself, just a more powerful human, really. And at that point, there's no reason to think you'd continue to do good things, that what we term 'good' will continue to make you happy as a god.

(12-12-2015 07:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Oddgamer Wrote:or even the possibility, because you'll be your own authority.
Who says that Gods have no authority over them?
Any sensible definition of the term 'god', unless there's a community. But then that community might change at any time, as other communities do.

(12-12-2015 07:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  
OddGamer Wrote:Or, worse, it'll become impossible for you to do evil because anything you do as a god will be your will and therefore good by definition.
It is possible for Gods to do evil but Gods don't want to do evil.
Like kind person NEVER wants to hurt anybody. Like an honest person never wants to lie. Honest person would hate to lie. Kind person would hate to hurt someone.
This seems to make the assumption that becoming a god won't in any way change the perspective of a person, and neither will living for a long, long time, it assumes that people who do things a certain way frequently possess some attribute (honesty or kindness) that is somehow intrinsic at that point and not a function of the dynamic of their situation, which will change as the situation changes. That strikes me as a very limited way of thinking about human behavior.
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13-12-2015, 10:49 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
Just wanted to make a general announcement.

When I first came on this forum I asked why nobody goes to a christian forum to ask questions about Christianity. The overwhelming response was "we have but we just get kicked off". I have verified the statement as true because there was no specific subforum dedicated to apologetics where opposing views could be heard.

After some talk with the admin on "the Christian Forum" about the issue, there is a subforum now in place for you all to allow your voices and questions to be heard.

Login to "The Christian Forum " go to "prayers and outreach " then "outreach". There will be a subforum labeled "apologetics".
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13-12-2015, 11:15 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
OddGamer Wrote:If you do good 'on your own' sometimes, then you can never know if you were 'inspired' by an outside force or not, meaning praising god for inspiration you didn't get is to steal the moral choice from yourself and give it to god (which he doesn't deserve). If god must always inspire every good act, then you are never good, but only inspiration from
We always do good on our own. Even when we inspired by God we still have to choose to act upon this inspiration. The same with temptations.
We always do evil on our own. It is up to us to resist temptation or not.
And you are right I may not if someone who helped me was inspired by God that is why I thank God all the time. In case God inspired I thank Him.
And to thank God as often as possible is good for me.
OddGamer Wrote:Hang on... Midiaanites. God says, of the same group, slaughter everyone but the virgin girls, and keep those girls. So the young girl children (a group that bronze-age savages would place a high priority on) are somehow 'innocent victims' but young boy children (not so highly prized) are somehow complicit with their parents being evil?
We don't know why God said to leave only virgin-girls. We may assume whatever we want but we don't know if our assumptions are true.
OddGamer Wrote:Or is god a misogynist? Take the boys out of a terrible situation, but leave the girls in a bad spot (slaves to the very people who killed their parents, forced to endure whatever treatment they get if they don't happen to want to be in that situation since they loved their parents)?
For whatever reason God wanted those particular girls continue to stay on Earth, we will not know those reasons. We only may assume that for example their situation became only better. They wouldn't be sacrificed to idols for sure. They wouldn't have sex with their own parents and with animals. They could become beloved children of new parents.
Both boys and girls were innocent victims. They were innocent victims of their evil parents choices.
OddGamer Wrote:Note that the male babies were slaughtered, too. Please let me know how a boy six months old is complicit in anything his parents do. Yet that boy was killed along with the rest.
May be it was not possible to take care of those beautiful little babies at that moment. If they would die any way alone.
OddGamer Wrote:People doing nasty things also seem to be quite happy. As gods you'd no longer be under the influence of god, otherwise you're not really a god yourself, just a more powerful human, really. And at that point, there's no reason to think you'd continue to do good things, that what we term 'good' will continue to make you happy as a god.
Yes, people do nasty things and seem to be happy. But you don't know if what seems is true. They may be happy but nasty choices have consequences. If not right away then later. Gods don't want to have those consequences which take away happiness.
Who told you that Gods do not have Gods over them?
OddGamer Wrote:Any sensible definition of the term 'god', unless there's a community. But then that community might change at any time, as other communities do.
There is eternal family of Gods. They change. In glory. Glory of every God is only increases.
OddGamer Wrote:This seems to make the assumption that becoming a god won't in any way change the perspective of a person, and neither will living for a long, long time, it assumes that people who do things a certain way frequently possess some attribute (honesty or kindness) that is somehow intrinsic at that point and not a function of the dynamic of their situation, which will change as the situation changes. That strikes me as a very limited way of thinking about human behavior.
God's are perfect beings. We can not comprehend eternity and we can not comprehend perfection. But I believe that time comes when I do.
We may assume anything now but we don't know if it is true.

P.S. I understand that you don't believe in God. So, I discuss with you a book and a story. I do not convince you that the story is true, that God is real.

English is my second language.
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13-12-2015, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2015 02:04 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: The Problem of Good
(13-12-2015 06:56 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  You can say this. I don't mind.Smile

You keep saying this bullshit, it's apparent that your brain is short circuiting, the mods have been way too lenient in your case. But hey, if they just want to fold their arms why you stink up this forum with your bullshit, then so be it.

Might as well invite a few of your friends here Alla, because you apparently have "free agency" to run amok on this forum, hell you could get a few of your chowderhead Mormon loons to join you and turn this forum into the Moron Mormon forum.

This is interesting. Earlier I read where members thought Alla and Q ought to be banned and I though we can just avoid their threads if we want to, its just two out of many.

But I can’t imagine this being a Forum I would want to be a part of if there were a bunch of Allas and Qs running amok, it would be unbearable.

Sometimes a theist will show up that is interesting and thought provoking and adds diversity in a positive way. And then there’s Alla and Q spouting proselytizing, passive-aggressive nonsensical, irrelevant, unfounded, unsuported, uninteresting post after post after post after post...

I think if more Allas and Qs showed up they would have to be shown the door or people would leave. And if that is true then why are we putting up with the two of them now? Consider

I think the level of dialogue these two bring is uninteresting at best and disruptive at worst.

My two cents. Drinking Beverage

ps CotW is another

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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