The Problem of Good
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07-12-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 09:05 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Sometimes God is responsible for the bad things that happen in your life.

I disagree.

Shit happens. Some of it's good, some of it's bad. We have to deal with all of it.


Things are only confusing if you postulate a god(s).

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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07-12-2015, 12:00 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 11:33 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(07-12-2015 09:05 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Sometimes God is responsible for the bad things that happen in your life.

I disagree.

Shit happens. Some of it's good, some of it's bad. We have to deal with all of it.


Things are only confusing if you postulate a god(s).
I also agree that shit happens. I do it at least once a day. If I am lucky.
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07-12-2015, 12:41 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 11:33 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(07-12-2015 09:05 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Sometimes God is responsible for the bad things that happen in your life.

I disagree.

Shit happens. Some of it's good, some of it's bad. We have to deal with all of it.


Things are only confusing if you postulate a god(s).

More from my manifesto:

Then the atheist gets to ask the believer a question: Why do bad things happen to good people? Typically there are two likely responses: it's some sort of test, or God moves in mysterious ways. I have always found these answers to be less than satisfactory because the first seems to imply that this compassionate God must continually feed his own ego by inflicting pain on his most faithful subjects to test their love for him, while the second requires an undeserved (near as I can tell) trust in divine motivation. Yet, the faithful Christian continually returns to an abusive God in much the same manner as an abused wife continually returns to her husband. The believer has faith that God has a good reason and the wife (doctors tell us) that she deserves it; both seem pathetic to me. For the non-believer it's easy: bad things happen to good people because stuff happens. Ironically, in a Bible passage that seems to be entirely overlooked by most Christians, Christ seems to agree. In Luke 13:1-5, Jesus refers to an incident where 18 people were killed by a collapsing tower; he then rhetorically asks whether they died because they were such great sinners, or because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. To my memory, I have never experienced or heard of a sermon that referred to this passage. Perhaps that's because it would be too difficult to describe as compassionate a deity who would knowingly, remembering that God is omniscient, cause or allow pain for no particular reason.
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07-12-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
Luke 13:1-5 It was not a rhetorical question. Jesus was telling them that those people didn't perish because they were greater sinners than others but because they did not repent of their sins.
Jesus answered that any person who doesn't repent will perish likewise.
so, there is a reason.

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07-12-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Luke 13:1-5 It was not a rhetorical question. Jesus was telling them that those people didn't perish because they were greater sinners than others but because they did not repent of their sins.
Jesus answered that any person who doesn't repent will perish likewise.
so, there is a reason.

...everyone is going to perish anyway, and you don't deny it or think otherwise. I'm not sure what your point here is. Jesus and you telling people to repent or else the exact same scenario (in this listed situation) will happen to you regardless. It's not saying anything of an afterlife or situation beyond death.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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07-12-2015, 01:20 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Luke 13:1-5 It was not a rhetorical question. Jesus was telling them that those people didn't perish because they were greater sinners than others but because they did not repent of their sins.
Jesus answered that any person who doesn't repent will perish likewise.
so, there is a reason.

We're supposed to apologize for the sin nature we were created with?

So our creator makes us flawed, then demands that we heal ourselves of that flawed nature or we will be punished for all eternity.

And if you believe exodus, then even if we make the "right" choice, the loving god can "harden our hearts" and make us sin.

But it's ok because jesus loves us.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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07-12-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 12:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Luke 13:1-5 It was not a rhetorical question. Jesus was telling them that those people didn't perish because they were greater sinners than others but because they did not repent of their sins.
Jesus answered that any person who doesn't repent will perish likewise.
so, there is a reason.

Basically Jesus is saying, "No, they're not worse sinners than you. You just wait. Your time will come!... or you can repent and I'll spare your ass!"

We are told the same thing about the 2nd coming. "Be forever watchful, and make sure you repent of ever sin you commit because you never know when he will come." It does't matter if you accepted Jesus into your life, if you're not on his good side, well you're just fucked!

"Why hast thou forsaken me, o deity whose existence I doubt..." - Dr. Sheldon Cooper
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07-12-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
My point is that question was not rhetorical, Jesus gave an answer. Those people perished because they didn't repent, not because they were in a wrong place at a wrong time.
Jesus also said those who do not repent will die likewise(God will kill them), they are not going to die naturally.

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07-12-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 01:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  My point is that question was not rhetorical, Jesus gave an answer. Those people perished because they didn't repent, not because they were in a wrong place at a wrong time.
Jesus also said those who do not repent will die likewise(God will kill them), they are not going to die naturally.

How is there a distinction?

If all that is nature is from god, dying naturally is dying because of God.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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07-12-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: The Problem of Good
(07-12-2015 01:20 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  We're supposed to apologize for the sin nature we were created with?
So our creator makes us flawed, then demands that we heal ourselves of that flawed nature or we will be punished for all eternity.
No, there is no such thing as sin nature. We are born pure and clean.
(07-12-2015 01:20 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  And if you believe exodus, then even if we make the "right" choice, the loving god can "harden our hearts" and make us sin.
I believe exodus as far as it is translated correctly. That is an error. Correct translation: but pharaoh hardened his heart.
(07-12-2015 01:20 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  But it's ok because jesus loves us.
Yes, He does.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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