The Quadratic Model
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17-07-2012, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2012 07:29 AM by Ghost.)
The Quadratic Model
Gnostic Theist
Agnostic Theist
Gnostic Atheist
Agnostic Atheist

A Gnostic Theist believes there is a God and knows that's true.

An Agnostic Theist believes there is a God but doesn't know if it's true.

Gnostic and Agnostic Atheists know and don't know.... what exactly? That they have no belief?

ON EDIT: Fixed simply typo that utterly changed that meaning of my question Cool

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Matt
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17-07-2012, 07:02 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 06:55 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Gnostic Theist
Agnostic Theist
Gnostic Atheist
Agnostic Atheist

A Gnostic Theist believes there is a God and knows that's true.

An Agnostic Theist believes there is a God but doesn't know if it's true.

Gnostic and Agnostic theists know and don't know.... what exactly? That they have no belief?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Typo?
Quote:Gnostic and Agnostic theists know and don't know.... what exactly? That they have no belief?
If you meant to say "Gnostic and Agnostic Atheists know and don't know.... what exactly? That they have no belief?", then the common understanding is that we are talking about the existence of God.

So the gnostic atheist claims to know that no god exists, and the agnostic atheist does not claim to know but to believe that no gods exist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-07-2012, 07:06 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
What was that all models are wrong thingy? Big Grin

Seems to be two kinds of philosopher in the world. One that demands rigorous adherence to an established school of thought, another that exposes the student to said schools of thought and encourages the student to go from there and develop his own philosophy. I go with the second option. Thumbsup

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17-07-2012, 07:11 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
I learned a long time ago to not get bogged down with philosophy and instead get busy enjoying the ever-fleeting experience of reality.

And yes, I'm an agnostic atheist. I can't claim to know for sure whether or not god(s) exists, but I don't personally believe that any god(s) exist.

I do believe that coffee and trail mix exists, so I'm going to go down some ; )

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17-07-2012, 07:44 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
Everyone seems in such a rush to apply labels to everyone else's beliefs. I could say I am an agnostic atheist but that just sounds like bullshit to me. I would rather answer 2 questions and define what I believe instead of what I don't believe. Those 2 questions are 1)Does god(s) exist? and 2)Do you believe that a god(s) exists?

1) I do not know
2) No

If that qualifies as "Agnostic Atheist" okay, so what? Atheism is the rejection of the god claim in my definition of my beliefs. Someone claims god exists based on faith, and I reject the claim that a god(s) exist based on the lack of evidence. Someone changes the definition of god to a fundamental consciousness that is all things? I reject that claim too based on a lack of evidence.

The thing with defining atheism in terms of gnostic through agnostic with atheist and theist end-members, is that one would have to use that Cartesian system for each god claim separately. I find that tiring trying to say I am an atheist with respect to Zeus and Ra and Jesus and Mithras and etc. It is much simpler to define atheism not as some belief, but as the absence of one.

Why do the labels matter? I can safely say this is one set of opinions of mine that have changed greatly since I first broke free from my supernatural beliefs. I was all about calling myself an agnostic atheist until I realized there was a better definition to be had.

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17-07-2012, 07:49 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
Agnostic atheist: I have no knowledge of a non-existent god. Hobo

Gnostic atheist: I know your god is fiction. Cool

Glad to be of assistance. Thumbsup

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17-07-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
I might use that definition of gnostic atheist.

I would also be a gnostic big foot denier.

and a gnostic loch ness denier.

and despite the fact that I LOVED the movie "Paul," I would also be a gnostic "intelligent beings from another planet have visited Earth" denier.

It takes so much longer to explain what I don't believe. Fuck it, I'm just going to start telling people I worship Satan so they will leave me alone and not ask any additional questions. Hail Satan! Evil_monster

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17-07-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
Anti-theistic agnostic atheist- My personal title. It's going to be on my business card some day.

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17-07-2012, 07:53 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
What I'm getting at is that in the case of Theists, their Gnosticism/Agnosticism refers specifically to their belief. They believe there is a God (Theist) but some are sure, others not.

In the case of Atheists, it can't refer specifically to their belief, because they don't have a belief.

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Matt
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17-07-2012, 08:02 AM
RE: The Quadratic Model
But that depends on how they use each of those terms. I am agnostic with respect to the question of does god exist, because one can never have absolute knowledge of the non-existence of anything that doesn't exist, but I am atheist with respect to my opinion on whether I believe god exists or not. It depends on how you employ the terms.

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