The Quadratic Model
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17-07-2012, 03:52 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 03:20 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(17-07-2012 03:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  Except far fewer Christians?
I think you got that backwards there, Chief. All that is in Hell, is Christians. Big Grin
Right. I should have said "A better class of people" "Pretty much the same people."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-07-2012, 08:51 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
Lol. I have never seen such a thorough thread derailment in my life. Excelsior!

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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17-07-2012, 08:55 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
Aww... here ya go:

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All better. Big Grin

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17-07-2012, 09:02 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 08:51 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Lol. I have never seen such a thorough thread derailment in my life. Excelsior!

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

What did you expect from a bunch of rogue atheists? Tongue

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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17-07-2012, 09:27 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 09:02 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(17-07-2012 08:51 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Lol. I have never seen such a thorough thread derailment in my life. Excelsior!

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

What did you expect from a bunch of rogue atheists? Tongue
Really. Aggie is almost as bad as theist. Evil_monster

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17-07-2012, 09:36 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 09:27 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Really. Aggie is almost as bad as theist. Evil_monster
That would be Agamemnon to you. All hail Soybeans.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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17-07-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 09:27 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(17-07-2012 09:02 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  What did you expect from a bunch of rogue atheists? Tongue
Really. Aggie is almost as bad as theist. Evil_monster

Fo shnizzle my HoCizzle.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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17-07-2012, 09:47 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 09:37 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(17-07-2012 09:27 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Really. Aggie is almost as bad as theist. Evil_monster

Fo shnizzle my HoCizzle.
You wanna what my what?!?

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17-07-2012, 10:10 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
Well I sure don't wanna nizzle your dizzle, that's for damn sure!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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17-07-2012, 11:10 PM
RE: The Quadratic Model
(17-07-2012 10:48 AM)Ghost Wrote:  If Gnostic = I can know something and Agnostic = I can't know something, then the second term needs to explain what the something is. A Gnostic Theist believes in God and believes he can know. An Agnostic Agnostic is neutral and believes he can't know. An Agnostic Atheist believes in.... what? And believes he can't know... what?

At best, an Agnostic Atheist can say they are BOTH an Agnostic (doesn't believe we can know something) AND an Atheist (has no particular beliefs about God). Which means one could be an Agnostic OR an Atheist as well.

But an Agnostic, as I understand the term, doesn't believe that we can't know something, an Agnostic believes we CAN know a thing but an Agnostic believes that one shouldn't pretend things are certain, that things are known, without demonstration. Agnosticism says nothing about the ability to know things or not.

Through all of this, there is not a single term to describe someone who believes that God does not exist. They cannot be an Atheist because they don't simply lack a belief, they have one. They can't be an Agnostic because they pretend to know something and because they are doing so without demonstration. They can't be Gnostic if Gnostic = I believe God exists, because a Gnostic (insert mystery term here) knows God exists but believes he doesn't. Just as they can't be Gnostic if it means I can know something because there's no description of what that something is.

HAHA! IRON CLAD! I WIN!





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Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Why have you stated that Gnostic means, I believe God exists later on? It's simply the state of knowing something of any topic you are speaking upon.

An example that I can relate upon is "Intelligent Life" on other planets. I believe there is intelligent life on other planets, but I don't claim to know it or not. I am agnostic to question is there intelligent life on other planets. It seems likely and those equations make it seem likely, but I don't not think I possess the proper knowledge to claim I know it is the case. Others may use their understanding of the Universe to provide suffiucent evidence for them to assert knowledge of the question.

Maybe that's all worthless since it's just me being an agnostic believer but I felt like saying it anyway.

The simple term for a person who asserts, there is no gods, is gnostic atheist/strong atheist. There's no hubgrub around it.

Even when using the Huxley original, agnostic means I think it's likely unknowable. If the person does not have a positive belief in a deity, they are at default which is not just agnostic there. It is atheist as well because atheist remains the default in belief. Like said, if you have no particular belief of a god, you are classifiable an atheist.

On the crazy contradicting idea... In the bible there are some people who show what is pretty close to considering gnostic knowledge of God while holding a disbelief. There were people supposedly witnessing God's mightyness with supernatural miracles or appearing in real forms which would be seemingly efficient enough to prove an existing.. Yet the "wicked" folks like those of Sodom, Exodus, and waring nations seem to be able to know God exists, but don't believe in him.. or I suppose it's just they really really don't care or understand he is a dillweed.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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