The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
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08-02-2018, 10:31 AM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(08-02-2018 08:37 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  As an addendum to this thread..............

I recently had an encounter with a creationist who was referencing some nonsense promulgated by Answers in Genesis. When challenged by someone else on the validity of The Flood, he referred to "hydrologically-sorted fossils" and that the Flood had been "recorded in historical documents".

Now the first claim is absolute nonsense and of course the second claim - that the Bible is a reliable "historical document" - has about as much validity as Grimms Fairy Tales being historically reliable. The guy that was making these claims was also being a smarmy bastard - "I've-studied-this-for-decades-so-I-know-what-I'm-talking-about" How do I know this? Well, I've also studied geology and geomorphology for decades and I have the academic credentials to prove it.

So I asked him for the geological evidence that supports the Biblical Flood only to get the brush off in the form of.............."well you should know that already if you actually know anything about geology." I guess you can see where this is going.........continued equivocation, evasion etc. before he comes up with a reference to "CPT" and says that I should know all about this and that it's all the evidence he needs for his claim.

Now I must confess that this was an interesting as the only "CPT" I'd ever come across in geology was Cone Penetration Testing, which is undertaken in geotechnical investigations to obtain information on the physical properties of soil and rock around a site. So puzzled as to why my creationist would bring that up, I continued to press for the evidence that this provided for The Flood.

More evasion from him.

Together with numerous attempts to reverse the burden of proof as well as ad hominems.

At this point I decided enough was enough and called him out for what he was.

End of story?

But not quite. I did some more "digging" on this "CPT" he kept referring to and came across this article in Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_geology - which refers to "Catastrophic Plate Tectonics" as a model which accounts for the Flood. This of course is absolute garbage. Not only does catastrophic plate tectonics lack any plausible geophysical mechanism by which its changes might occur, it also is contradicted by considerable geological evidence (which is in turn consistent with conventional plate tectonics).

So CPT - Catastrophic plate tectonics - just like any other "creation science" is nothing but pseudoscience

This sounds like Baumgardner's runaway subduction theory where he asserts that several hundred million years of plate tectonic activity is compressed into the biblical deluge timeframe of 150 days. That much energy compressed within that time frame could easily boil off all of the oceans on Earth as well as frying Noah and his boat to a crisp.

You can only assert so much cartoon physics until it completely breaks down and destroys all life on Earth. Facepalm

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-02-2018, 10:45 AM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(08-02-2018 10:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  You can only assert so much cartoon physics until it completely breaks down and destroys all life on Earth. Facepalm

Indeed the origins for this do lie at the door of Baumgardner.

Interestingly when I suggested that a "model" does not constitute evidence my creationist denied it was a model.

He also questioned me on the "secular nature" of my education, but of course science is science. There is no false equivalence between "creation science" and science. The fact that creationists are prepared to promote this demonstrates their utter dishonesty but illustrates a worrying tendency in modern society to decry that which is evidence-based as merely an "interpretation".

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08-02-2018, 11:11 AM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(08-02-2018 10:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  This sounds like Baumgardner's runaway subduction theory where he asserts that several hundred million years of plate tectonic activity is compressed into the biblical deluge timeframe of 150 days. That much energy compressed within that time frame could easily boil off all of the oceans on Earth as well as frying Noah and his boat to a crisp.

You can only assert so much cartoon physics until it completely breaks down and destroys all life on Earth. Facepalm
Maybe God had an Acme Flood Kit?
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08-02-2018, 12:42 PM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  
(19-12-2017 03:33 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  An interesting paper on how the work by creationist "geologists" to prove the Flood happened, actually proves quite the opposite.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Flood%20geology.pdf

As my academic background is in earth sciences I've always found it profoundly idiotic for anyone to claim the Genesis Flood occurred, let alone those who purport to have studied geology and call themselves geologists.

As a theist, I have never felt the need to use science to understand religion, or religion to understand science. I personally would not expect to find any evidence of the flood in this world. The flood was sort of an other-worldly event. Aside from the survivors of the flood, the world as it was prior to the flood is an erased world. It is like it never existed, because a cosmological reset button was pressed. Our reality now, is not the same reality of the pre-flood world. Some of the rules of nature are even different.

I have read this entire thread. I have read your responses to atheists. I have read the atheists responses to you. I could be wrong but ...

I think you're fucked.

Consider

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08-02-2018, 01:12 PM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  
(19-12-2017 03:33 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  An interesting paper on how the work by creationist "geologists" to prove the Flood happened, actually proves quite the opposite.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Flood%20geology.pdf

As my academic background is in earth sciences I've always found it profoundly idiotic for anyone to claim the Genesis Flood occurred, let alone those who purport to have studied geology and call themselves geologists.

As a theist, I have never felt the need to use science to understand religion, or religion to understand science. I personally would not expect to find any evidence of the flood in this world. The flood was sort of an other-worldly event. Aside from the survivors of the flood, the world as it was prior to the flood is an erased world. It is like it never existed, because a cosmological reset button was pressed. Our reality now, is not the same reality of the pre-flood world. Some of the rules of nature are even different.

Give me a fucking break.
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10-02-2018, 08:49 AM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
Soft tissue has been found in some dinosaur bones. This shows they are probably only a jew thousand years old, as they would be if they were formed by a flood. It is unlikely that any tissue could remain soft if the bones were millions of years old.

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.
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10-02-2018, 09:16 AM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(10-02-2018 08:49 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Soft tissue has been found in some dinosaur bones. This shows they are probably only a jew thousand years old, as they would be if they were formed by a flood. It is unlikely that any tissue could remain soft if the bones were millions of years old.
I suppose the last time you read a science article was...2012? Did you read one....at all....ever?
Unlikely? Please explain. Maybe use one of your peer reviewed articles abourt paleontology? Soft tissue....flood? Quite a leap (of faith) eh? Facepalm

Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained; November 26, 2013
Dinosaur Shocker
Probing a 68-million-year-old T. rex, Mary Schweitzer stumbled upon astonishing signs of life that may radically change our view of the ancient beasts; May 2006


The findings even support evolution
Quote:The tissue was collagen, they reported in the journal Science, and it shared similarities with bird collagen — which makes sense, as modern birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs such as T. rex.

Quote:This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it. She’s horrified that some Christians accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,” she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really cool.
Although she may be a theist, at least she has the intellectual honesty to not deny scientific facts.

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10-02-2018, 04:40 PM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(10-02-2018 08:49 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Soft tissue has been found in some dinosaur bones. This shows they are probably only a jew thousand years old, as they would be if they were formed by a flood. It is unlikely that any tissue could remain soft if the bones were millions of years old.

A Jew thousand years old? Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

Yeah, them Jews and their crazy-ass science. Facepalm

Show us the radiological dating that supports that concluion or write "Clyde Herrin is an ignorant dipshit" 1000 times before posting again.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-02-2018, 12:46 PM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(10-02-2018 08:49 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Soft tissue has been found in some dinosaur bones. This shows they are probably only a jew thousand years old, as they would be if they were formed by a flood. It is unlikely that any tissue could remain soft if the bones were millions of years old.

Typical creationist bullshit that you're just repeating from the same wrong source. This has been debunked thoroughly, but I guess since Eric Hovind keeps repeating it, so are you.
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13-02-2018, 06:36 PM
RE: The Rebuttal of the Noachian Flood - by Creationists
(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  As a theist, I have never felt the need to use science to understand religion
Science is a methodology. A methodology for, among other things, evaluating claims. The ONLY methodology with a successful track record.

All you are doing is protecting your views from critical analysis, probably because you know they would fail as they always do, and creating an echo chamber of nonsense inside your own mind.


(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  or religion to understand science.
This is utter nonsense, your religion makes claims about the world and how it operates constantly. Those areas are areas that can be evaluated through the scientific method and when we do the claims made are consistently shown to be false.

Just because it's a religious claim doesn't mean it gets some special protections form skeptical analysis, and that you can just wave your hand about and say "nuh-ih, science can't question religion. Yes it bloody well can, it bloody well has been for ages, and it always wins.

(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  I personally would not expect to find any evidence of the flood in this world.
Making it fucking indistinguishable from an event that never happened, which is the infinity more probable answer.

(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  The flood was sort of an other-worldly event.
Correct, and that world is the world of fiction.

(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  Aside from the survivors of the flood, the world as it was prior to the flood is an erased world.
No it's not you're just an uneducated buffoon frankly. We have archeological evidence of human beings going back tens of thousands of years, well before this stupid flood is supposed to have taken place. So what, god hit the reset button but decided to leave every single thing still in place exactly how it was except for EXCLUSIVELY any evidence of the flood? That's idiotic and makes no sense.

(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  It is like it never existed, because a cosmological reset button was pressed.
This is an assertion pulled out of your ass without physical or even textual support. You're just trying to fill in plot holes and that's all your doing. You believe an event happened, there is no evidence for that event and a ton of evidence to disprove it happened, and there for you are solving your CogDis by inventing a magical second otherworld where these events happened. A entirely second world of which there is also no evidence. It's an ass pull, a lazy stupid ass pull, and not even a part of the text.

For fuck sake man, if it's two entirely different worlds why do we still find archeological evidence from the first one in the bloody current one?

(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  Our reality now, is not the same reality of the pre-flood world.
The "pre-flood" world was never a part of reality. It's fiction, through and through.

(19-12-2017 05:23 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  Some of the rules of nature are even different.
According to what, because certainly not according to every fucking field of scientific study in the modern age? According to people who died 2000+ years ago who didn't know enough to not shit in there drinking water?

You SHOULD apply the scientific method to your religion and your ignorance makes it strikingly apparent that you desperately need to.

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