The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
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18-01-2015, 07:08 AM
The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
The two part Moral Questions.

In a Letter from a Birmingham Jail, Rev. King speaks of the injustice of his people, as a violation of an eternal law.

For those who don’t believe in such a law, where do you think such beliefs came from?

Many people also believe that we have intrinsic moral obligations, and responsibilities. That we are endowed with a moral purpose. That the rightness and wrongness of certain things are violation of something sacred and eternal.

Would you say all these beliefs are merely a product of religious indoctrincations? That without religion we wouldn’t be compelled to believe these things?

The second part of the question is this.

Do you think that most moral statements of communities, of people, both historically and in the present, most statements protesting injustice, and evil, have this sort of understanding in the background, of eternal moral laws, of intrinsic moral obligations, that have been violated? That they tend to presuppose such a reality? Particularly in consideration that most societies and people have historically been religious.

(keep in mind that this is a question of beliefs regarding morality, rather than actual moral behavior)
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18-01-2015, 07:14 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
Humans have a common sense of empathy and fairness that is a product of evolution. These aspects are also seen in other species.

That sense coupled with reason obviates any need for morality to have come from anywhere but from within by natural causes.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-01-2015, 07:37 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 07:14 AM)Chas Wrote:  Humans have a common sense of empathy and fairness that is a product of evolution. These aspects are also seen in other species.

That sense coupled with reason obviates any need for morality to have come from anywhere but from within by natural causes.

You're speaking more about behavior, I'm asking about beliefs in particular, such as MLK's beliefs, that the injustice of his people, was a violation of an eternal law.

Where do you think such a belief in an eternal moral law came from?

Or to repeat the rest of the OP:

Many people also believe that we have intrinsic moral obligations, and responsibilities. That we are endowed with a moral purpose. That the rightness and wrongness of certain things are violation of something sacred and eternal.

Would you say all these beliefs are merely a product of religious indoctrincations? That without religion we wouldn’t be compelled to believe these things?

The second part of the question is this.

Do you think that most moral statements of communities, of people, both historically and in the present, most statements protesting injustice, and evil, have this sort of understanding in the background, of eternal moral laws, of intrinsic moral obligations, that have been violated? That they tend to presuppose such a reality? Particularly in consideration that most societies and people have historically been religious.
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18-01-2015, 07:50 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs


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18-01-2015, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2015 08:04 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 07:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Where do you think such a belief in an eternal moral law came from?

This shit again ? Really ?
He fucking LEARNED it. He was a Baptist MINISTER.
It came from HIS culture.

Yawn

(Oh wait. Jebus gave it to him. That MUST be it.)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-01-2015, 07:56 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
If the question(s) hinge(s) on the words intrinsic and eternal... I don't think so.

I'm not a good enough student of philosophy (maybe others can help me out) to recall which specific philosophers were / are both non-religious and upholders of these ideas but I'm pretty sure there are at least a handful.

My perspective (from the non-religious text books I've studied) is that ethical (deliberately avoiding the word 'moral') goals / objectives can be categorised as either intrinsic, contextual or related to accessibility/security.

So, intrinsic, perhaps... as for eternal... who the fuck knows? Only a divine being or hindsight at the end of the universe can tell us that.

Good questions though.

Thanks.

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18-01-2015, 08:01 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2015 08:14 AM by Dom.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
It's an instinct - survival of the species. We are herd animals - we live in groups.

It is not beneficial to harm your group. They do well, you do well.

Individual groups add their own flavor to create sets of morals, and these "flavors" are taught to children and become ingrained.

Like with everything else - some are endowed with more and some with less.

Religion has nothing to do with it, aside of consisting of tons of differing groups.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-01-2015, 08:19 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 07:50 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  This shit again ? Really ?
He fucking LEARNED it. He was a Baptist MINISTER.
It came from HIS culture.

Yawn

(Oh wait. Jebus gave it to him. That MUST be it.)

So it was a product of his religious indoctrination, and his culture may have played a role in this indoctrination, that caused him to believe there is such a thing as an eternal law?

Would you also say that beliefs in such an eternal law, are no different than beliefs in fairies, heaven, and angels. That they are false beliefs, whose persistence in the minds of people is because of heavy religious indoctrination?
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18-01-2015, 08:20 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:01 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's an instinct - survival of the species. We are herd animals - we live in groups.

It is not beneficial to harm your group. They do well, you do well.

Individual groups add their own flavor to create sets of morals, and these "flavors" are taught to children and become ingrained.

Like with everything else - some are endowed with more and some with less.

Religion has nothing to do with it, aside of consisting of tons of differing groups.


You're making the same mistake as Chas did earlier. You conflating moral behavior and moral beliefs. My OP was about beliefs about morality, not about actual moral behavior.
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18-01-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
“The greatest tragedy in mankind’s entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion." ~ Arthur C. Clarke

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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