The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
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20-01-2015, 02:12 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 12:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-01-2015 10:40 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I'm a totally moral person. (Someone should do a study of me and my siblings. ) So how did this happen?

I don't know. Perhaps the way it happens for chimpanzees, who also take care of their young, and their families. And sometimes when shit gets real, they engage in genocidal wars, and infanticide. But for the most part they just take care of their young, and families.


Quote: My morality came from nature and natural evolution.

Well, all our feelings can be said to be rooted in nature and natural evolution. Those violent impulses, the drive a man to murder, and those caring impulses that lead a mother to tend to her child. Those inner feelings that drive all of destructiveness and creativeness have roots in our nature and evolution.

When we hear about chimpanzees engaging in heinous displays of tribal violence, we likely won't pass any moral judgements, or call on an international coalition to euthanize or cage the violent offenders. We won't label these offenders as evil, or anything of the sort. They're just animals doing what animals do, according to preordained nature.

Perhaps upon your perch upon the mountains, when you hear of the Rwandan Genocide, you look upon it no differently than as you would in regards to chimpanzees, just a bunch of animals doing shit that animals do.

Or perhaps you have some concept of evil, that you label such a thing with. Is it nature that gave you this idea? Did your parents sculpt that concept for you? If they did, do you think they sculpted that concept removing all it's religious parts that gave birth to it before handing it to you? Like a fish they removed the bones out of prior to your consumption.

Of course, you forgot to mention that the Christian Churches in and around the Rwandan blood bath failed to do much to help, and some churches were complicit and supporting of the genocide. There were many instances in which inner-religious killing took place. Parishioners killing other parishioners who attended the same church and even cases in which parishioners killed their pastors and priests and pastors killed parishioners. Religion is many things but morality is not one of them.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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20-01-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 02:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-01-2015 12:08 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  How do you know which came first of Humans evolving with a strong community bond that has intrinsic moral beliefs or that humans created religious thoughts then began to apply moral obligations? Where is the basis for your knowledge to think it was the latter?

Uhm, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, since i'm not too sure what you mean by intrinsic moral beliefs. Are you implying that such beliefs do in fact exist intrinsically? Are you implying that intrinsic moral beliefs exist?

Or are you trying to say that strong community bonds, led people to believe falsely that intrinsic moral beliefs exist?

I'm using YOUR words... sorry I altered belief for some reason with obligation 1 of the times unintentionally.

You asserted something as a fact...(That the belief in intrinsic moral obligations doesn't predate religion) how did you come to that conclusion and what is your basis to make it?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-01-2015, 02:35 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2015 02:40 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 02:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You asserted something as a fact...(That the belief in intrinsic moral obligations doesn't predate religion) how did you come to that conclusion and what is your basis to make it?

Uhm, how would a religious belief (a belief in intrinsic moral obligations), predate a religious belief?
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20-01-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 02:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-01-2015 02:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You asserted something as a fact...(That the belief in intrinsic moral obligations doesn't predate religion) how did you come to that conclusion and what is your basis to make it?

Uhm, how would a religious belief (a belief intrinsic moral obligations), predate a religious belief?

Oh dear you really mean that?

When was ethics ever the exclusive domain of religion? You assume too much.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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20-01-2015, 02:54 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
Tomasia, forget about me?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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20-01-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 02:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  Oh dear you really mean that?

When was ethics ever the exclusive domain of religion? You assume too much.

Uhm, let's not move the goal posts here. We're taking exclusively about intrinsic moral obligations, and you'll have an easier time arguing that the belief in angels and demons is not a religious belief, than this.
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20-01-2015, 03:20 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 03:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-01-2015 02:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  Oh dear you really mean that?

When was ethics ever the exclusive domain of religion? You assume too much.

Uhm, let's not move the goal posts here. We're taking exclusively about intrinsic moral obligations, and you'll have an easier time arguing that the belief in angels and demons is not a religious belief, than this.

Where's your proof? You're the one making the argument, you tiny minded person.

Nice try but your intellectual Kung Fu is weak.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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20-01-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 03:20 PM)gofish! Wrote:  Where's your proof? You're the one making the argument, you tiny minded person.

What are you asking? Are you asking me to prove that a belief in intrinsic moral obligations is a religious belief?
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20-01-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 02:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  the Christian Churches in and around the Rwandan blood bath failed to do much to help, and some churches were complicit and supporting of the genocide. There were many instances in which inner-religious killing took place. Parishioners killing other parishioners who attended the same church and even cases in which parishioners killed their pastors and priests and pastors killed parishioners.

And? How is this even relevant to any point I've actually made?
It's seem so out of sync with my response to you, that I'm not even sure what to do with it.
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20-01-2015, 03:53 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(20-01-2015 03:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-01-2015 03:20 PM)gofish! Wrote:  Where's your proof? You're the one making the argument, you tiny minded person.

What are you asking? Are you asking me to prove that a belief in intrinsic moral obligations is a religious belief?

Yes. Facepalm

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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