The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
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18-01-2015, 08:27 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2015 08:32 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-01-2015 07:50 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  This shit again ? Really ?
He fucking LEARNED it. He was a Baptist MINISTER.
It came from HIS culture.

Yawn

(Oh wait. Jebus gave it to him. That MUST be it.)

So it was a product of his religious indoctrination, and his culture may have played a role in this indoctrination, that caused him to believe there is such a thing as an eternal law?

Would you also say that beliefs in such an eternal law, are no different than beliefs in fairies, heaven, and angels. That they are false beliefs, whose persistence in the minds of people is because of heavy religious indoctrination?

His views were the result of his learning. (Stop your dishonestly putting pejorative words in people's mouths. Jebus no likey that shit.) He probably never actually studied what he thought about "eternal laws" so you would have to ask him. Your questions are disingenuous and leading. People hold all sorts of false beliefs for all sorts of reasons. Generalizations are neither helpful nor likely to lead to an accurate answer.

We all know the only answer you want and have is "cuz gawd".
You're a boring little troll, Tomasina.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-01-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:27 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...
You're a boring little troll, Tomasina.

Or an atheist who is trying to reevaluate some long held beliefs and coming up with some confused semi-answers for which they are seeking clarification?

You decide.

Oh, wait... you have.

Dodgy

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18-01-2015, 08:36 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:35 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(18-01-2015 08:27 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...
You're a boring little troll, Tomasina.

Or an atheist who is trying to reevaluate some long held beliefs and coming up with some confused semi-answers for which they are seeking clarification?

You decide.

Oh, wait... you have.

Dodgy

He's been here a long time, and informed us exactly why, a long time ago.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-01-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:36 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-01-2015 08:35 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Or an atheist who is trying to reevaluate some long held beliefs and coming up with some confused semi-answers for which they are seeking clarification?

You decide.

Oh, wait... you have.

Dodgy

He's been here a long time, and informed us exactly why, a long time ago.

I think I missed that so I don't know what you mean.

Either way, I'm preferring to address the question rather than the questioner (wider audience etc.)

Wink

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18-01-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
So, curiosity got the better of me and I didn't some Google searches on the word 'moral'. I don't seem to find definitions that include God or religion. WhatdidImiss?


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moral

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral?s=t

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18-01-2015, 08:54 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2015 09:38 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
How many times did Dr. King stand in his pulpit and preach the wonderful gawd he worshiped with his "eternal" laws that changed when Jebus arrived on the scene ? How many times in the OT did his deity say it was ok for the Hebrews to slaughter their neighbors and those who didn't believe.

THOSE "eternal" laws ? Clearly the views Dr. King had were influenced by something other than his bigoted religious heritage, whether he realized it or not.

(EVERY "law" in every religious and moral sytsem invented by human brains were cooked up from the cultures in which they originated.) NOT ONE originated from the gods, and not one differs in any significant way from the cultures that produced them.

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18-01-2015, 08:56 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:46 AM)Anjele Wrote:  So, curiosity got the better of me and I didn't some Google searches on the word 'moral'. I don't seem to find definitions that include God or religion. WhatdidImiss?


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moral

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral?s=t

You missed nothing.

But the question (I think... not entirely sure) is about why religiously indoctrinated people would believe that morality is intrinsic / eternal.

Which as Bucky has already pointed is... cos culture.

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18-01-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:54 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  (EVERY "law" in every religious and moral sytsem invented by human brains were cooked up from the cultures in which they originated.) NOT ONE originated from the gods, and not one differs in any significant way from the cultures that produced them.

As a point of observation take for instance those children who are kidnapped in war-torn Africa and turned into soldiers, many times by being forced to shoot their own family. I would imagine that before long most will not see killing as a moral dilemma.

I have nothing to back this up, mind you, but just goes to show you can teach anything if started young enough, like say "our morals" as opposed to "their" morals.

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18-01-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 07:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-01-2015 07:14 AM)Chas Wrote:  Humans have a common sense of empathy and fairness that is a product of evolution. These aspects are also seen in other species.

That sense coupled with reason obviates any need for morality to have come from anywhere but from within by natural causes.

You're speaking more about behavior, I'm asking about beliefs in particular, such as MLK's beliefs, that the injustice of his people, was a violation of an eternal law.

Where do you think such a belief in an eternal moral law came from?


"belief in an eternal moral law" comes from erroneous thinking.
Quote:Or to repeat the rest of the OP:

Many people also believe that we have intrinsic moral obligations, and responsibilities. That we are endowed with a moral purpose. That the rightness and wrongness of certain things are violation of something sacred and eternal.

Intrinsic obligations? Endowed from where?

Quote:Would you say all these beliefs are merely a product of religious indoctrincations? That without religion we wouldn’t be compelled to believe these things?

No, they are also the misfiring of other evolved brain/mind functions such as attributing intentionality.

Quote:The second part of the question is this.

Do you think that most moral statements of communities, of people, both historically and in the present, most statements protesting injustice, and evil, have this sort of understanding in the background, of eternal moral laws, of intrinsic moral obligations, that have been violated? That they tend to presuppose such a reality? Particularly in consideration that most societies and people have historically been religious.

Probably. I suggest you read about evolutionary psychology.

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18-01-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(18-01-2015 08:27 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  His views were the result of his learning. (Stop your dishonestly putting pejorative words in people's mouths. Jebus no likey that shit.) He probably never actually studied what he thought about "eternal laws" so you would have to ask him. Your questions are disingenuous and leading. People hold all sorts of false beliefs for all sorts of reasons. Generalizations are neither helpful nor likely to lead to an accurate answer.

We all know the only answer you want and have is "cuz gawd".
You're a boring little troll, Tomasina.


Well, that's not the answer that I assumed.

I assumed the answer would be "religious indoctrination", but I'm surprised at the hesitation, and reluctance by folks such as yourself to say that. You seem to be denying the religious component of those beliefs all together, even though you likely believe that such beliefs are false.

What is interesting, and surprising for me is the fact, that you're reluctant to relegate beliefs in an eternal moral law, as you do God beliefs in general, to be equivalent to beliefs in the tooth fairy, heaven, and talking snakes. You seem reluctant to label such beliefs as delusional, as you would other religious beliefs. You appeal to culture in a way that you wouldn't in regards to other religious beliefs.

I honestly find this surprising, it went against my expectations for what the responses would be, in an interesting way. I'm confused as to why this is. Why a belief in an eternal moral law, is treated as something different, than others religious beliefs that are often deemed as delusional, and a product of religious indoctrination.
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