The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-01-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 07:32 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  ...
A person is not set to be doing merely what they like when it comes to their moral choices and actions in this world.
...

Do I not choose to conform to whatever constraints I 'like' to conform to?

I'm not sure that 'like' is the best word, there.

I either 'like' to conform to my own ethical principles or a wider group's ethical principles.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(23-01-2015 05:40 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You've defined your own version of morality.
And you done the same right?

Quote:And morality can be defined by acting upon the commandments given to you. This is simply false. ….Operating and acting under the assumption that you've been given moral actions to commit, doesn't make you moral.

False, only for you, but not false, or wrong in any objective sense.

Quote:You've yet to actually rebut them, you just dismiss them.

There nothing to rebut. It’s akin to trying to rebut, a statement that "olives taste good”. You made no truth claim, you only expressed a statement of preference.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2015, 09:44 AM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2015 11:31 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 09:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 09:08 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I don't get the question because how would I know what you like?

Sorry, let's try it with you in mind. Can you provide an example, that doesn't amount to you sacrificing something you like, for the sake of something you like more?

That's something I do all the time. I don't go talk to people or speak up to others despite liking it because of falling into an unhealthy unenjoyable trap of inter destructive solace. I work hard with no reward that benefits me when I'm leaving my job anyway instead of spending time to talk to the people I will miss when I go which I enjoy doing intensely more. I put various stops on doing things I would like because I think another point I could like it more.. but then never do the liked idea to begin with... there is also some game theory type scenarios that aren't actually examples, but scenarios where I could choose the lesser benefit for me for the sake of something I like more. Or choosing to die opposed to choosing to live for strangers who I don't care for by any real means.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2015, 09:59 AM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2015 10:03 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 09:35 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I'm not sure that 'like' is the best word, there.

I think "like" would be the most appropriate word, because it allows us to cut through a great deal of decorative frills.


Quote:I either 'like' to conform to my own ethical principles or a wider group's ethical principles.

But why though?

Do you think we can strip much of the statements of terms like ethical, or principle, or morality, to get a clearer picture as to what exactly we are talking about?

Couldn't we say that you like being a part of whatever social group you're a part of, that wouldn't be so fond of you, and might even reject you all together, for doing certain things? You like this community, and wouldn't want to be a black sheep?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 09:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
Couldn't we say that you like being a part of whatever social group you're a part of, that wouldn't be so fond of you, and might even reject you all together, for doing certain things? You like this community, and wouldn't want to be a black sheep?

You could. One could. And... ?

I've spent most of life being a black sheep. I like it. I sometimes go out of my way to alienate myself.
But that's just a personal preference... I like it. Individual ethics often take priority over organisational ethics. It all depends on one's goals, does it not?

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2015, 10:29 AM
The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 09:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(23-01-2015 05:40 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You've defined your own version of morality.
And you done the same right?

Quote:And morality can be defined by acting upon the commandments given to you. This is simply false. ….Operating and acting under the assumption that you've been given moral actions to commit, doesn't make you moral.

False, only for you, but not false, or wrong in any objective sense.

Quote:You've yet to actually rebut them, you just dismiss them.

There nothing to rebut. It’s akin to trying to rebut, a statement that "olives taste good”. You made no truth claim, you only expressed a statement of preference.

You keep missing the point. Despite hitting all around it.

"And you done the same right?" <-this is because

"False, only for you, but not false, or wrong in any objective sense."

As you start to say above, is because morality is subjective. So yes, of course I've defined morality for myself, as have you. But the difference is that you define amoral actions as moral, which is completely wrong. Morality can't come from acting on someone else's command. Because that relies upon their interpretation of morality instead of your own.


"There nothing to rebut. It’s akin to trying to rebut, a statement that "olives taste good”. You made no truth claim, you only expressed a statement of preference."

I'm not sure you've read through what I've written.

Also, you've hit around the subjective nature of morality yet again with the "olive tastes good" bit.

I'll ask again. What relevance is there to humans having had incorrect beliefs that have shaped society? We explored the oceans and land even when we thought the Earth was flat. What does this demonstrate beyond our limited knowledge backwards in time?

You also never did tell me how you know morality is unique to humans or that this "eternal moral code" originated with the beginning of the human genus ( Homo ).

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
24-01-2015, 10:32 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 09:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(23-01-2015 05:40 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You've defined your own version of morality.
And you done***1 the same right?

Quote:And morality can be defined by acting upon the commandments given to you. This is simply false. ….Operating and acting under the assumption that you've been given moral actions to commit, doesn't make you moral.

False, only for you, but not false, or wrong in any objective sense.

Quote:You've yet to actually rebut them, you just dismiss them.

There nothing to rebut. It’s akin to trying to rebut, a statement that "olives taste good”. You made no truth claim, you only expressed a statement of preference.

***1 have done.

"False, only for you, but not false, or wrong in any objective sense."

Totally false. Nice try. Millions of nuts in the history of this planet claimed they were doing their killing and abuse on the basis of what their gods gave them. Wrong again, Tommy boy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2015, 10:32 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 10:23 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I've spent most of life being a black sheep. I like it. I sometimes go out of my way to alienate myself.
But that's just a personal preference... I like it. Individual ethics often take priority over organisational ethics. It all depends on one's goals, does it not?

But what goal is your individual ethical principle concerned with?

If you see yourself as a black sheep, a role you feel comfortable with, and in fact like your alienation, it would be hard to say your goal is social approval, or an attempt to appease the status quo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2015, 10:50 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 10:29 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What relevance is there to humans having had incorrect beliefs that have shaped society?

The only relevance we’re concerned with here, is how these incorrect beliefs have shaped our societies. The way a supposed incorrect belief in objective morality, rather than the supposed correct one, that morality is subjective, as you agreed with in my olive example, has shaped our moral perceptions. And maybe not even just the perceptions of believers, but unaware unbelievers as well.

Quote:You also never did tell me how you know morality is unique to humans or that this "eternal moral code" originated with the beginning of the human genus ( Homo ).

I don’t know maybe it’s not unique, or maybe it is. Maybe it originated in the human genus, or maybe it did’t. Again as per post #185, such questions are irrelevant.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Tomasia's post
24-01-2015, 10:54 AM
The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 10:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:29 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What relevance is there to humans having had incorrect beliefs that have shaped society?

The only relevance we’re concerned with here, is how these incorrect beliefs have shaped our societies. The way a supposed incorrect belief in objective morality, rather than the supposed correct one, that morality is subjective, as you agreed with in my olive example, has shaped our moral perceptions. And maybe not even just the perceptions of believers, but unaware unbelievers as well.

Quote:You also never did tell me how you know morality is unique to humans or that this "eternal moral code" originated with the beginning of the human genus ( Homo ).

I don’t know maybe it’s not unique, or maybe it is. Maybe it originated in the human genus, or maybe it did’t. Again as per post #185, such questions are irrelevant.

Incorrect beliefs shape our societies by holding them back. The longer we hang on to our ignorance, the longer it will take us to move forward.

Religion has been a black hole of progress. Especially considering its archaic views on morality.

Those views have shaped society and continue to shape society by the belief in objective morals through religion being used to justify slavery, and discrimination against interracial marriage and homosexual marriage. We still see the negative consequences of this asinine belief of "eternal moral obligations" and a belief in the validity of religious "morals" and the attempt to make morality objective and based in a primitive text.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: