The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
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24-01-2015, 10:55 AM
The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
"I don’t know maybe it’s not unique, or maybe it is. Maybe it originated in the human genus, or maybe it did’t. Again as per post #185, such questions are irrelevant."

You're the one who claimed this "eternal moral code" originated with humanity. I want to know where this claim comes from and how you substantiate it.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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24-01-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 10:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
If you see yourself as a black sheep, a role you feel comfortable with, and in fact like your alienation, it would be hard to say your goal is social approval, or an attempt to appease the status quo.

It would indeed.

(24-01-2015 10:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
But what goal is your individual ethical principle concerned with?
...

That's my business, don't you think?

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24-01-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 10:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Those views have shaped society and continue to shape society by the belief in objective morals through religion being used to justify slavery

You forgot the other end of the stick. Objective morality has been used by the slaves, abolitionists, the civil rights movement, to condemn the slave owners, to declare the wrongness of their predicaments.

And you also forgot this. Without these religious beliefs, what would slave owners even have to justify their actions against? Wouldn't it just mean they would be slave owners being slave owners, lacking a need to justify their actions at all, other than a desire for inexpensive labor?

And you think that people perceiving morality as akin to stating one likes the taste of olives, is offering something better?
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24-01-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 11:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Those views have shaped society and continue to shape society by the belief in objective morals through religion being used to justify slavery

You forgot the other end of the stick. Objective morality has been used by the slaves, abolitionists, the civil rights movement, to condemn the slave owners, to declare the wrongness of their predicaments.

And you also forgot this. Without these religious beliefs, what would slave owners even have to justify their actions against? Wouldn't it just mean they would be slave owners being slave owners, lacking a need to justify their actions at all, other than a desire for inexpensive labor?

And you think that people perceiving morality as akin to stating one likes the taste of olives, is offering something better?

No, no and no!

Sorry, but you haven't been paying attention.

Sad

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24-01-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 11:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
But what goal is your individual ethical principle concerned with?
...

That's my business, don't you think?

Sure, I'm not sure as to why the desire for privacy here, but sure it's your business.
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24-01-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 11:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Those views have shaped society and continue to shape society by the belief in objective morals through religion being used to justify slavery

You forgot the other end of the stick. Objective morality has been used by the slaves, abolitionists, the civil rights movement, to condemn the slave owners, to declare the wrongness of their predicaments.

And you also forgot this. Without these religious beliefs, what would slave owners even have to justify their actions against? Wouldn't it just mean they would be slave owners being slave owners, lacking a need to justify their actions at all, other than a desire for inexpensive labor?

And you think that people perceiving morality as akin to stating one likes the taste of olives, is offering something better?

Well first off you ignored my response to your questions.

but here you go again, presenting only a black/white scenario and dropping out the actual societal impact of the idea behind these choices.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-01-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 09:44 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  . I work hard with no reward that benefits me when I'm leaving my job anyway instead of spending time to talk to the people I will miss when I go which I enjoy doing intensely more.

Then why do you continue working then?

Quote:I put various stops on doing things I would like because I think another point I could like it more.. but then never do the liked idea to begin with.

But you stopped doing what you liked, for the sake of obtaining something you liked more. It doesn't matter that it didn't pan on the way you like.

Quote:I could choose the lesser benefit for me for the sake of something I like more.

But you're doing exactly as I stated, you're sacrificing something you like, for the sake of something you like more.
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24-01-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 11:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 11:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  That's my business, don't you think?

Sure, I'm not sure as to why the desire for privacy here, but sure it's your business.

My principles are concerned with my goals.

My goal could be ... 'self-destruction' or y'know, anything. What does it matter? The point is... it's subjective.

Dodgy

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24-01-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 11:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 09:44 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  . I work hard with no reward that benefits me when I'm leaving my job anyway instead of spending time to talk to the people I will miss when I go which I enjoy doing intensely more.

Then why do you continue working then?
I couldn't say, I don't really know but it's a manner of internal strife.
Quote:
Quote:I put various stops on doing things I would like because I think another point I could like it more.. but then never do the liked idea to begin with.

But you stopped doing what you liked, for the sake of obtaining something you liked more. It doesn't matter that it didn't pan on the way you like.
The situation is I stopped doing something I like, like writing, for something I like less such as reading; knowing I would like it less that way. Knowing the panned out situation would be that manner. And both have given me equal stress and anxiety.
Quote:
Quote:I could choose the lesser benefit for me for the sake of something I like more.

But you're doing exactly as I stated, you're sacrificing something you like, for the sake of something you like more.

I said I could... but that's exactly what I'm NOT doing.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-01-2015, 11:59 AM
The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(24-01-2015 11:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Those views have shaped society and continue to shape society by the belief in objective morals through religion being used to justify slavery

You forgot the other end of the stick. Objective morality has been used by the slaves, abolitionists, the civil rights movement, to condemn the slave owners, to declare the wrongness of their predicaments.

And you also forgot this. Without these religious beliefs, what would slave owners even have to justify their actions against? Wouldn't it just mean they would be slave owners being slave owners, lacking a need to justify their actions at all, other than a desire for inexpensive labor?

And you think that people perceiving morality as akin to stating one likes the taste of olives, is offering something better?

It's always funny how people seem to take these "objective morals" and interpret them subjectively, no?

It's almost as if those acting immorally do so at the justification of religion, while those opposing it are acting in line with their own subjective morality.

That's because it's all subjective. It is better when we take the lessons we've learned, and apply them to better morals instead of those paddled by religions.


But you're not even playing your own game anymore. You asked how these beliefs in "objective moral codes" have shaped society. I gave you an answer and you've tried to dismiss it with "but some religious people didn't support that stuff" which is fair, but they opposed the religious views and the popular opinion at the time. That's because morality is subjective. It changes over time.

People don't do good because of their religion. They do good in spite of it.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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