The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-02-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 10:16 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Refer to my math example. Is the person being told what to do, a mathematician?

The problem with your mathematician examples, is that a mathematician is someone dealing with objective truths, in which he has to be knowledgeable about.

But if used a more appropriate example, dealing with a subjective domain, the problem becomes more apparent. Like instead of a mathematician we use a musician. Is someone who is instructed on how to sing a particular tune, written by someone else a musician? In a order to be a good musician, does one have to write their own lyrics, and accompanying tunes? Can they be a mainstream pop artist? We can all have different answers to these questions, and no one would be any more correct than the other.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-02-2015, 01:24 PM
The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 10:16 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Amoral is an absence of moral decisions.

You STILL don't understand what I mean by this.

Refer to my math example. Is the person being told what to do, a mathematician?

That is an interesting perspective BeardedWonder and it warrants more consideration. My understanding has always been amoral implies the lack of any moral code by which to inform decisions. So it is something more than the absence of moral decisions. It is the inability to make moral decisions. Or equivalently, the inability to base any decision on a moral code.

The inability to make a moral decision is not the same as the inability to base one's decisions off of a moral code.

The inability to make a moral decision could be a result of a lack of empathy, as in serial killers, but they can still adhere to "moral codes" so as to blend-in.

Moral "codes" aren't static either, but adhering to them without considering the moral nature of them, is amoral. Because the code may or may not be moral.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-02-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 10:16 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Amoral is an absence of moral decisions.

You STILL don't understand what I mean by this.

Refer to my math example. Is the person being told what to do, a mathematician?

That is an interesting perspective BeardedWonder and it warrants more consideration. My understanding has always been amoral implies the lack of any moral code by which to inform decisions. So it is something more than the absence of moral decisions. It is the inability to make moral decisions. Or equivalently, the inability to base any decision on a moral code.

Or another way of thinking about it is that one can't lack a moral compass, but one can lack a moral "code" in terms of a defined set of morals dictated by man.

The only way to be amoral, is to act without thinking about the consequences. This is one way religious moral codes make adherents amoral, because the adherents are supposed to obey it unquestioningly.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-02-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:29 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 01:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That is an interesting perspective BeardedWonder and it warrants more consideration. My understanding has always been amoral implies the lack of any moral code by which to inform decisions. So it is something more than the absence of moral decisions. It is the inability to make moral decisions. Or equivalently, the inability to base any decision on a moral code.

Or another way of thinking about it is that one can't lack a moral compass, but one can lack a moral "code" in terms of a defined set of morals dictated by man.

The only way to be amoral, is to act without thinking about the consequences. This is one way religious moral codes make adherents amoral, because the adherents are supposed to obey it unquestioningly.

Psychopaths may or may not lack a moral compass I suppose. They have enough of one to know to adhere to the defined set of morals for a given time. They may simply choose not to always adhere to them.

Kind of like a speed limit.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-02-2015, 01:39 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:29 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The only way to be amoral, is to act without thinking about the consequences.

I would contend there is another way which is beyond good and evil. Tongue

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-02-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:39 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 01:29 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The only way to be amoral, is to act without thinking about the consequences.

I would contend there is another way which is beyond good and evil. Tongue

Be God?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
16-02-2015, 01:52 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2015 01:55 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 01:39 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I would contend there is another way which is beyond good and evil. Tongue

Be God?

Well duh. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
16-02-2015, 01:58 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2015 02:03 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  They don't mean anything except in the presence of others.

I don’t even see how this follows. If I am a loving, honorable and humble person, do I cease to be such a person when no one else is around? Does my wife lose her virtues when I’ve left for work and only acquire them again when I return? The reality is, her virtues are a part of who she is rather than what she does.

Even theist who believe in a Good God, believe that his Goodness was eternal, and not something he acquired only when he created others who were recipients of his goodness.

Quote: Why do you conclude that there is no objective foundation? Not harming others is an objective basis. Does your morality include harm to others?

Sure, it’s very well possible that harm can be defined in some particular way, and we can possibly even quantify that. And that quantitive assessment may even be objectively true. Just like we can measure the height and weight of a person, the color of their eyes, and skin complexion, and the symmetry of their face.

But making a moral judgement, like making a judgement on this observed person’s beauty, is a qualitative one. It’s one thing to a state a description of a person and another thing to say this person is beautiful. Someone who notes the same description, but does not find the person beautiful, is not someone denying a fact. He’s just someone with a different standard of beauty.

Quote:Morality is a meaningless concept except in regards to how we treat others.

Or perhaps morality is meaningless all together, a mere series of decorative frills. A fairy tale we tell ourselves exists, because it makes us feel better. Perhaps there is no meaningful response to someone who declares that it doesn't exist, other than that person makes us feel uncomfortable.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-02-2015, 03:12 PM
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
(16-02-2015 01:58 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Or perhaps morality is meaningless all together, a mere series of decorative frills. A fairy tale we tell ourselves exists, because it makes us feel better. Perhaps there is no meaningful response to someone who declares that it doesn't exist, other than that person makes us feel uncomfortable.

It's a matter of perspective.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-02-2015, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2015 03:24 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: The Religious Components of Moral Beliefs
A conversation.

H: This course of action would be harmful.

W: And why should I avoid doing what's harmful?

H: Because doing what's harmful is immoral.

W: And what makes it immoral?

H: Because it's harmful.

W: Well that's kind of a circular isn't it?

H: Yes, I suppose it is.

W: So why should I avoid doing what is harmful?

H: (At this point H, does a survey of W's interest, to find the one that would be adversely affected by this course of action). This course of action would lead to diminished profits.*

W: Well, why didn’t you say that from the beginning, so let’s avoid taking this course of action then.

* This can be a variety of different interest depending on the person i.e this course of action would lead you to lose friends. This course of actions can lead to you serving prison time. This course of actions would be harmful to your family. This course of action is not very Christlike (if the person is a Christian).

Adding a supposed moral element to all this, just tends to create a very fuzzy middle. You can sit in your room all day trying to devise a way to define harm, and the one particular interest in which this is to serve. But this would amount to no more than navel gazing. We can talk about ways to avoid going to prison, ways to keep my friends, ways to insure a profitable return, without muddying this exchange with some supposed moral weight.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: