The Republican Candidates
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30-11-2011, 08:20 PM
RE: The Republican Candidates
(30-11-2011 07:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ... The fact that their Mormonism bothers fundy Xtians more than it bugs me I find hilarious. One thing about being an atheist is that I don't discriminate between fairy tales. Wink

Some fairy tales are more toxic than others. I don't see a Mormon or a Roman Catholic moving toward a theocracy. Fundamentalist Christians or Muslims believe truly dangerous things.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-11-2011, 08:32 PM
RE: The Republican Candidates
(30-11-2011 12:34 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  
(30-11-2011 05:31 AM)ProThinking Wrote:  (mainly because I don't believe Obama was born with a spine)

I don't know if I'd say Obama doesn't have a spine, I think it has more to do with the Republicans are much better at selling their product.

What I mean by that is that he is constantly giving in to the right, he has a strong idea - he attempts to push that idea until he meets resistance then he tries to please everyone.
From the past 10 years it's evident that the right is pushing more and more towards a radical conservative state, the divide between the two current political parties is widening with every election, and the people are the ones that suffer. It's almost time for a third party to step up, not sure what that would be but the left wants us all to rely to heavily on government - while the right wants to allow corporations to run this country. We need something new.

Solution to part of our national debt - make churches pay taxes.
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30-11-2011, 10:08 PM
RE: The Republican Candidates
(30-11-2011 08:32 PM)ProThinking Wrote:  
(30-11-2011 12:34 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  
(30-11-2011 05:31 AM)ProThinking Wrote:  (mainly because I don't believe Obama was born with a spine)

I don't know if I'd say Obama doesn't have a spine, I think it has more to do with the Republicans are much better at selling their product.

What I mean by that is that he is constantly giving in to the right, he has a strong idea - he attempts to push that idea until he meets resistance then he tries to please everyone.
From the past 10 years it's evident that the right is pushing more and more towards a radical conservative state, the divide between the two current political parties is widening with every election, and the people are the ones that suffer. It's almost time for a third party to step up, not sure what that would be but the left wants us all to rely to heavily on government - while the right wants to allow corporations to run this country. We need something new.

I agree with you on this one. Obama had a strong position in the beginning, despite the economy. But he's given up so much ground to try to meet in the middle. The problem is that the middle is so far to the right now that it's done the dems no good, and the country is still suffering on top of it. The congress situation isn't helping him at all though.
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01-12-2011, 06:01 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2011 06:08 AM by Seasbury.)
RE: The Republican Candidates
(30-11-2011 10:08 PM)kineo Wrote:  The problem is that the middle is so far to the right now that it's done the dems no good, and the country is still suffering on top of it. The congress situation isn't helping him at all though.

It's largely because of this very issue that I began my blog.

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http://centersolid.blogspot.com/2010/11/...scape.html

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01-12-2011, 03:03 PM
RE: The Republican Candidates
Saw this today and thought of you guys.

Derp

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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01-12-2011, 03:47 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2011 03:49 PM by kineo.)
RE: The Republican Candidates
(01-12-2011 03:03 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Saw this today and thought of you guys.

Derp

Are you saying I have batshit-crazy eyes? -_-
(01-12-2011 06:01 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  
(30-11-2011 10:08 PM)kineo Wrote:  The problem is that the middle is so far to the right now that it's done the dems no good, and the country is still suffering on top of it. The congress situation isn't helping him at all though.

It's largely because of this very issue that I began my blog.


http://centersolid.blogspot.com/2010/11/...scape.html

I've now got your blog bookmarked. Big Grin
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02-12-2011, 09:53 PM
RE: The Republican Candidates
Huntsman, he's shown what he can do as a governer in Utah (which was better than any other governer with probably the worst possible state), he has foreign policy experience, and he's actually smart.
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03-12-2011, 12:31 AM
RE: The Republican Candidates
Buddy Roemer seems the least crazy, but you wont find him in any of the Republican debates for that very reason.
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03-12-2011, 11:35 AM
RE: The Republican Candidates
(03-12-2011 12:31 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Buddy Roemer seems the least crazy, but you wont find him in any of the Republican debates for that very reason.

I think he's not featured on the Republican debates because of his lack of money (for obvious reasons). He doesn't have PR people that can set up for debates for him, I would assume.

All I know about him is his economic policy from his interview on The Colbert Report. I'd like to think he can actually introduce tort reform, because he doesn't have large contributions from tort lawyers (unlike, unfortunately, most candidates). That's certainly a plus. What's his view on civil liberties?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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04-12-2011, 04:36 PM
RE: The Republican Candidates
I thought this article by the economist and UC Berkeley professor Robert Reich perfectly captured the Republican mindset.

Quote:The Rebirth of Social Darwinism
By Robert Reich

Dec. 4, 2011


What kind of society, exactly, do modern Republicans want? I’ve been listening to Republican candidates in an effort to discern an overall philosophy, a broadly-shared vision, an ideal picture of America.

They say they want a smaller government but that can’t be it. Most seek a larger national defense and more muscular homeland security. Almost all want to widen the government’s powers of search and surveillance inside the United States – eradicating possible terrorists, expunging undocumented immigrants, “securing” the nation’s borders. They want stiffer criminal sentences, including broader application of the death penalty. Many also want government to intrude on the most intimate aspects of private life.

They call themselves conservatives but that’s not it, either. They don’t want to conserve what we now have. They’d rather take the country backwards – before the 1960s and 1970s, and the Environmental Protection Act, Medicare, and Medicaid; before the New Deal, and its provision for Social Security, unemployment insurance, the forty-hour workweek, laws against child labor, and official recognition of trade unions; even before the Progressive Era, and the first national income tax, antitrust laws, and Federal Reserve.

They’re not conservatives. They’re regressives. And the America they seek is the one we had in the Gilded Age of the late nineteenth century.

It was an era when the nation was mesmerized by the doctrine of free enterprise, but few Americans actually enjoyed much freedom. Robber barons like the financier Jay Gould, the railroad magnate Cornelius Vanderbilt, and the oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, controlled much of American industry; the gap between rich and poor had turned into a chasm; urban slums festered; children worked long hours in factories; women couldn’t vote and black Americans were subject to Jim Crow; and the lackeys of rich literally deposited sacks of money on desks of pliant legislators.

Most tellingly, it was a time when the ideas of William Graham Sumner, a professor of political and social science at Yale, dominated American social thought. Sumner brought Charles Darwin to America and twisted him into a theory to fit the times.

Few Americans living today have read any of Sumner’s writings but they had an electrifying effect on America during the last three decades of the 19th century.

To Sumner and his followers, life was a competitive struggle in which only the fittest could survive – and through this struggle societies became stronger over time. A correlate of this principle was that government should do little or nothing to help those in need because that would interfere with natural selection.

Listen to today’s Republican debates and you hear a continuous regurgitation of Sumner. “Civilization has a simple choice,” Sumner wrote in the 1880s. It’s either “liberty, inequality, survival of the fittest,” or “not-liberty, equality, survival of the unfittest. The former carries society forward and favors all its best members; the latter carries society downwards and favors all its worst members.”

Sound familiar?

Newt Gingrich not only echoes Sumner’s thoughts but mimics Sumner’s reputed arrogance. Gingrich says we must reward “entrepreneurs” (by which he means anyone who has made a pile of money) and warns us not to “coddle” people in need. He calls laws against child labor “truly stupid,” and says poor kids should serve as janitors in their schools. He opposes extending unemployment insurance because, he says, ”I’m opposed to giving people money for doing nothing.”

Sumner, likewise, warned against handouts to people he termed “negligent, shiftless, inefficient, silly, and imprudent.”

Mitt Romney doesn’t want the government to do much of anything about unemployment. And he’s dead set against raising taxes on millionaires, relying on the standard Republican rationale millionaires create jobs.

Here’s Sumner, more than a century ago: “Millionaires are the product of natural selection, acting on the whole body of men to pick out those who can meet the requirement of certain work to be done… It is because they are thus selected that wealth aggregates under their hands – both their own and that intrusted to them … They may fairly be regarded as the naturally selected agents of society.” Although they live in luxury, “the bargain is a good one for society.”

Other Republican hopefuls also fit Sumner’s mold. Ron Paul, who favors repeal of Obama’s healthcare plan, was asked at a Republican debate in September what medical response he’d recommend if a young man who had decided not to buy health insurance were to go into a coma. Paul’s response: “That’s what freedom is all about: taking your own risks.” The Republican crowd cheered.

In other words, if the young man died for lack of health insurance, he was responsible. Survival of the fittest.

Social Darwinism offered a moral justification for the wild inequities and social cruelties of the late nineteenth century. It allowed John D. Rockefeller, for example, to claim the fortune he accumulated through his giant Standard Oil Trust was “merely a survival of the fittest.” It was, he insisted “the working out of a law of nature and of God.”

Social Darwinism also undermined all efforts at the time to build a nation of broadly-based prosperity and rescue our democracy from the tight grip of a very few at the top. It was used by the privileged and powerful to convince everyone else that government shouldn’t do much of anything.

Not until the twentieth century did America reject Social Darwinism. We created the large middle class that became the core of our economy and democracy. We built safety nets to catch Americans who fell downward through no fault of their own. We designed regulations to protect against the inevitable excesses of free-market greed. We taxed the rich and invested in public goods – public schools, public universities, public transportation, public parks, public health – that made us all better off.

In short, we rejected the notion that each of us is on his or her own in a competitive contest for survival.

But make no mistake: If one of the current crop of Republican hopefuls becomes president, and if regressive Republicans take over the House or Senate, or both, Social Darwinism is back.

Source: Nation of Change: http://www.nationofchange.org

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