The Satan Argument
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23-07-2014, 10:59 AM
RE: The Satan Argument
Four responses come to mind.

1. "I'm not the one following a book promoting genocide, slavery, and bigotry."
2. "Obviously, those ridiculous thoughts of yours are being put in your head by my pet invisible dragon."
3. "Well, if Satan can trick me against your God's wishes, he's probably the more powerful and we should probably start worshiping him."
4. "Tricked? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! He's gonna love that one."
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24-07-2014, 06:14 AM
RE: The Satan Argument
(23-07-2014 10:07 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Its too bad Satan has such a bad rep. I mean, in the story he was honest with eve and said that she would not die if she ate the fruit...and she didn't. In fact he saved us from an eternity of "bliss" [sarcasm] in the garden. Also how many people has he killed in rage and jealousy? He also only runs the torture pit because he was forced to do so for defying god himself

Hes the good guy imo. But I guess its how you look at it.

Exactly!

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24-07-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: The Satan Argument
(23-07-2014 10:07 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Its too bad Satan has such a bad rep. I mean, in the story he was honest with eve and said that she would not die if she ate the fruit...and she didn't. In fact he saved us from an eternity of "bliss" [sarcasm] in the garden. Also how many people has he killed in rage and jealousy? He also only runs the torture pit because he was forced to do so for defying god himself

Hes the good guy imo. But I guess its how you look at it.

Satan is the good guy and if christians really believed that the one who lies to them is the bad guy, then we wouldn't have to deal with all this god nonsense. They would all worship Satan and we would still be atheists, but at least they would be taking one more step toward moral thought. The way it is, they can't even tell the good guys from the bad.

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24-07-2014, 05:05 PM
RE: The Satan Argument
God's actions in the Bible are far more appalling than anything done by Satan. God sent bears to kill children, sent a plague to kill babies, told his followers to kill the Amalekites, and told them that nobody was to be spared - men, women, children and animals were all to be killed...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Great fucking guy, huh?

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24-07-2014, 07:20 PM
RE: The Satan Argument
Just like this little girl.

I would join the dark side to strike down the man in the sky ( Jedi )





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26-07-2014, 07:02 PM
RE: The Satan Argument
To Christians who use the Satan Argument say them :

1.(If the person is a Catholic) Do you know that some Protestants think than Catholics are deceived by Satan because they think that you're not Christian because you practice idolatry (praying to Virgin Mary and saints) accorded to their interpretation of these Bible verses (Exodus 20:3-4) ?

Hebrew text :

1.The Westminster Leningrad Codex : (the earliest full copy of masoretic text)
לֹֽ֣א יִהְיֶֽה־לְךָ֛֩ ׃

לֹֽ֣א תַֽעֲשֶׂ֨ה־לְךָ֥֣ פֶ֣֙סֶל֙ ׀ וְכָל־תְּמוּנָ֡֔ה אֲשֶׁ֤֣ר בַּשָּׁמַ֣֙יִם֙ ׀
מִמַּ֡֔עַל וַֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר֩ בָּאָ֖֨רֶץ מִתַָּ֑֜חַת ׃

2.From a French Protestant Wesbsite (I don't know the source) :
לֹֽ֣א יִהְיֶֽה־לְכָ֛֩ אֱלֹהִ֥֨ים אֲחֵרִ֖֜ים עַל־פָּנָֽ֗יַ

לֹֽ֣א תַֽעֲשֶׂ֨ה־לְכָ֥֣ פֶ֣סֶל֨׀ וְכָל־תְּמוּנָ֡֔ה אֲשֶׁ֣֚ר בַּשָּׁמַ֣יִם מִמַּ֡֔עַל וַֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר֩ בָּאָ֖֨רֶץ מִתַָּ֑֜חַת וַאֲשֶׁ֥֣ר בַּמַּ֖֣יִם מִתַּ֥֣חַת לָאָֽ֗רֶץ

3.I haven't any other sources.

Translations :

1.King James Version (Protestant bible with some archaic therms) :
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

2.Revised standard version catholic version edition (Catholic) :
“You shall have no other gods before me.

“You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

3.Wycliffe Bible (Use some archaic therms) :
Thou shalt not have alien gods before me. (Thou shalt not have foreign, or other, gods in place of me/instead of me.)

Thou shalt not make to thee a graven image, neither any likeness of (any)thing that is in heaven above, and that is in (the) earth beneath, neither of those things that be in waters under the earth; (Thou shalt not make a carved image for thyself, nor any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or on the earth beneath, or of those things that be in the waters under the earth;

4.Darby Translation (Protestant) :
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make thyself any graven image, or any form of what is in the heavens above, or what is in the earth beneath, or what is in the waters under the earth:

5.Orthodox Jewish Bible (Messianic Jewish) :
Thou shalt have no elohim acherim in My presence.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any pesel, or any temunah of any thing that is in Shomayim above, or that is in ha’aretz beneath, or that is in the mayim under ha’aretz.

2.(If the person is a Protestant) Do you know that some Catholics think the next thing "outside the Church (Catholic) there is no salvation" ?

3.(To all Christians) Do you know that the majority of Sunnis Muslims think that Christians are going to Jahannam that is Islamic hell (Arabic : جهنم) because they don't believe that Muhammad is the last prophet of God and that they believe in a God in three ?

Conclusion : Who are right ?
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02-08-2014, 02:14 PM
RE: The Satan Argument
The problem is, God is responsible for everything that Satan can do. As we know from the book of Job, Satan couldn't harm Jobs family or afflict His body without God's permission.

God created Satan and he can remove Satan's influence at any time. He could have given Satan the purity to never rebel and He chose not to, being fully aware of the consequences. God used Satan to test Job which wasn't necessary because He knew in advance How Job would score on the test.

God permitted Satan to enter the Garden of Eden and tempt Adam and Eve knowing what the results would be. God placed forbidden fruit in the Garden knowing in advance that Adam and Eve would eat it, and then he punished us for it. So sad. Sad
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02-08-2014, 04:23 PM
RE: The Satan Argument
(26-07-2014 07:02 PM)viocjit Wrote:  To Christians who use the Satan Argument say them :

1.(If the person is a Catholic) Do you know that some Protestants think than Catholics are deceived by Satan because they think that you're not Christian because you practice idolatry (praying to Virgin Mary and saints) accorded to their interpretation of these Bible verses (Exodus 20:3-4) ?

Hebrew text :

1.The Westminster Leningrad Codex : (the earliest full copy of masoretic text)
לֹֽ֣א יִהְיֶֽה־לְךָ֛֩ ׃

לֹֽ֣א תַֽעֲשֶׂ֨ה־לְךָ֥֣ פֶ֣֙סֶל֙ ׀ וְכָל־תְּמוּנָ֡֔ה אֲשֶׁ֤֣ר בַּשָּׁמַ֣֙יִם֙ ׀
מִמַּ֡֔עַל וַֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר֩ בָּאָ֖֨רֶץ מִתַָּ֑֜חַת ׃

2.From a French Protestant Wesbsite (I don't know the source) :
לֹֽ֣א יִהְיֶֽה־לְכָ֛֩ אֱלֹהִ֥֨ים אֲחֵרִ֖֜ים עַל־פָּנָֽ֗יַ

לֹֽ֣א תַֽעֲשֶׂ֨ה־לְכָ֥֣ פֶ֣סֶל֨׀ וְכָל־תְּמוּנָ֡֔ה אֲשֶׁ֣֚ר בַּשָּׁמַ֣יִם מִמַּ֡֔עַל וַֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר֩ בָּאָ֖֨רֶץ מִתַָּ֑֜חַת וַאֲשֶׁ֥֣ר בַּמַּ֖֣יִם מִתַּ֥֣חַת לָאָֽ֗רֶץ

3.I haven't any other sources.

Translations :

1.King James Version (Protestant bible with some archaic therms) :
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

2.Revised standard version catholic version edition (Catholic) :
“You shall have no other gods before me.

“You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

3.Wycliffe Bible (Use some archaic therms) :
Thou shalt not have alien gods before me. (Thou shalt not have foreign, or other, gods in place of me/instead of me.)

Thou shalt not make to thee a graven image, neither any likeness of (any)thing that is in heaven above, and that is in (the) earth beneath, neither of those things that be in waters under the earth; (Thou shalt not make a carved image for thyself, nor any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or on the earth beneath, or of those things that be in the waters under the earth;

4.Darby Translation (Protestant) :
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make thyself any graven image, or any form of what is in the heavens above, or what is in the earth beneath, or what is in the waters under the earth:

5.Orthodox Jewish Bible (Messianic Jewish) :
Thou shalt have no elohim acherim in My presence.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any pesel, or any temunah of any thing that is in Shomayim above, or that is in ha’aretz beneath, or that is in the mayim under ha’aretz.

2.(If the person is a Protestant) Do you know that some Catholics think the next thing "outside the Church (Catholic) there is no salvation" ?

3.(To all Christians) Do you know that the majority of Sunnis Muslims think that Christians are going to Jahannam that is Islamic hell (Arabic : جهنم) because they don't believe that Muhammad is the last prophet of God and that they believe in a God in three ?

Conclusion : Who are right ?

That's easy - none of them. It's all bullshit. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-08-2014, 12:24 AM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2014 03:27 PM by miranda_face.)
RE: The Satan Argument
This argument is one of the most amusing ones, in my opinion. Even when I was a believer, I never really believed in satan. The closest I got to being scared of satan was by watching The Exorcist.

My dad was born and grew up in Leesville, Louisiana. He's told me stories of all the times he got dragged to church, and how everything from knocking over a cookie jar to missing curfew was an act aided by the devil. His mother and grandmother were sticklers for that kind of thing, the most important part of him going to church was to "keep satan out." He described it as being more superstitious than religious. Some of these denominations have so much of a focus on the devil that I sometimes think they're more interested in him than in Jesus. Tongue

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03-08-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: The Satan Argument
"Could it be . . . Satan?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGZYGbBIGvI

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