The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
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23-12-2012, 02:44 AM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2012 02:50 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
But, suppose the concept of a militia is expanded to include large scale weapon systems. Would this be reasonable or acceptable way to maintain private militias in this country?

For instance, there are a large number of collectors in this country of tanks and other armored fighting vehicles. Could such clubs be weaponized and tasked with a particular aspect of national defense?

Another group, the Commemerative Air Force, is a club which maintains a fleet of WWII bomber and fighter aircraft for historical reasons. Could such a club be weaponized? Could the government issue the club, say 15 F-16Cs from AMARC, return them to flight status and provide them an annual stipend of ordanance, spare parts plus cash allowances for fuel and maintenance to provide their pilots with flight time in the jets? Could this be a modern, more expanded form of a militia which could realistically tangle with an foreign or domestic threat force to the United States?

Obviously the above examples are pretty exotic applications of private armed militias. But it's food for thought.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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23-12-2012, 04:47 AM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2012 04:50 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
(22-12-2012 08:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 08:20 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  We see terrorist forces trained by military units in an effort to overthrow dangerous leaders turning against us or their nations? Yes, we see that all the time. We do not see untrained U.S citizens attempting to fight a fully-armed military.
There are many self-styled militias in the U.S. and many ex-military citizens. Their mindset is that they will be able to fight a guerrilla war and that elements of the military will join them.

I am not arguing my point of view here - I am trying to explain what is going on in the U.S.

Those of you living in countries that have strict gun control also have real social safety nets and universal health care.
You don't have the gaping wealth inequity that exists in the U.S.
Or the Second Amendment,
Or the 'frontier' mentality.

They still will not be able to counter the brunt of the military.
So you are assuming that, even after my proposal for gun control, that I actually think it will be implemented? I have told you multiple times in the thread concerning the shooting, that my beliefs will not be widely accepted because of the U.S' mentality. Including people like you.
(22-12-2012 08:48 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 08:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Do you really think the average citizen will be able to withstand a professional army, with modern destructive capabilities, that can already obliterate the country's primary federal defenses?

Yes.

It's not just about the person. They are integrated into part of a machination tasked with going to war. It's like asking if the average soldier could withstand a modern professional army by himself.

I also need not remind you that our military is staffed by average Americans who couldn't even make their beds on a regular basis. A few weeks training from a hard nosed smokey bear wearin drill instructor can shape them into an Army. Same with a real militia. It works for Switzerland.....
The average citizen is not prepared to fight in a high-risk environment, they are not conditioned to participate in war.

Basic drill? Switzerland is a massively smaller nation that, out of all its armed forces, has 5% as a standing military. Switzerland, I will add, would get steamrolled.

(23-12-2012 02:44 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  But, suppose the concept of a militia is expanded to include large scale weapon systems. Would this be reasonable or acceptable way to maintain private militias in this country?

For instance, there are a large number of collectors in this country of tanks and other armored fighting vehicles. Could such clubs be weaponized and tasked with a particular aspect of national defense?

Another group, the Commemerative Air Force, is a club which maintains a fleet of WWII bomber and fighter aircraft for historical reasons. Could such a club be weaponized? Could the government issue the club, say 15 F-16Cs from AMARC, return them to flight status and provide them an annual stipend of ordanance, spare parts plus cash allowances for fuel and maintenance to provide their pilots with flight time in the jets? Could this be a modern, more expanded form of a militia which could realistically tangle with an foreign or domestic threat force to the United States?

Obviously the above examples are pretty exotic applications of private armed militias. But it's food for thought.

These "clubs" still own outdated equipment. It would be like watching the French military fight against the German military during World War II.

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23-12-2012, 12:03 PM
RE: The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
(23-12-2012 04:47 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 08:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are many self-styled militias in the U.S. and many ex-military citizens. Their mindset is that they will be able to fight a guerrilla war and that elements of the military will join them.

I am not arguing my point of view here - I am trying to explain what is going on in the U.S.

Those of you living in countries that have strict gun control also have real social safety nets and universal health care.
You don't have the gaping wealth inequity that exists in the U.S.
Or the Second Amendment,
Or the 'frontier' mentality.

They still will not be able to counter the brunt of the military.
So you are assuming that, even after my proposal for gun control, that I actually think it will be implemented? I have told you multiple times in the thread concerning the shooting, that my beliefs will not be widely accepted because of the U.S' mentality. Including people like you.
(22-12-2012 08:48 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Yes.

It's not just about the person. They are integrated into part of a machination tasked with going to war. It's like asking if the average soldier could withstand a modern professional army by himself.

I also need not remind you that our military is staffed by average Americans who couldn't even make their beds on a regular basis. A few weeks training from a hard nosed smokey bear wearin drill instructor can shape them into an Army. Same with a real militia. It works for Switzerland.....
The average citizen is not prepared to fight in a high-risk environment, they are not conditioned to participate in war.

Basic drill? Switzerland is a massively smaller nation that, out of all its armed forces, has 5% as a standing military. Switzerland, I will add, would get steamrolled.

(23-12-2012 02:44 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  But, suppose the concept of a militia is expanded to include large scale weapon systems. Would this be reasonable or acceptable way to maintain private militias in this country?

For instance, there are a large number of collectors in this country of tanks and other armored fighting vehicles. Could such clubs be weaponized and tasked with a particular aspect of national defense?

Another group, the Commemerative Air Force, is a club which maintains a fleet of WWII bomber and fighter aircraft for historical reasons. Could such a club be weaponized? Could the government issue the club, say 15 F-16Cs from AMARC, return them to flight status and provide them an annual stipend of ordanance, spare parts plus cash allowances for fuel and maintenance to provide their pilots with flight time in the jets? Could this be a modern, more expanded form of a militia which could realistically tangle with an foreign or domestic threat force to the United States?

Obviously the above examples are pretty exotic applications of private armed militias. But it's food for thought.

These "clubs" still own outdated equipment. It would be like watching the French military fight against the German military during World War II.

Did you bother to read my posts before you reacted to them?

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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23-12-2012, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2012 02:46 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
(23-12-2012 12:03 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(23-12-2012 04:47 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  They still will not be able to counter the brunt of the military.
So you are assuming that, even after my proposal for gun control, that I actually think it will be implemented? I have told you multiple times in the thread concerning the shooting, that my beliefs will not be widely accepted because of the U.S' mentality. Including people like you.
The average citizen is not prepared to fight in a high-risk environment, they are not conditioned to participate in war.

Basic drill? Switzerland is a massively smaller nation that, out of all its armed forces, has 5% as a standing military. Switzerland, I will add, would get steamrolled.


These "clubs" still own outdated equipment. It would be like watching the French military fight against the German military during World War II.

Did you bother to read my posts before you reacted to them?
Yes, and I am well aware of the differences in gun ownership in Switzerland and in the United States. Owners there are trained, expected to know how to use it. In the United States, you do not have to possess hardly any such thing. You, Phaedrus, and the Black Knight need to stop making unfounded assumptions about my position, learn to conduct a civil debate, or get the fuck out. Prior to today, I avoided using ad hominems, but I can see that this is simply going to devolve into a pissing match. So unless you want to engage in a serious discussion, I am done with you.

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23-12-2012, 04:39 PM
RE: The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
(23-12-2012 02:42 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(23-12-2012 12:03 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Did you bother to read my posts before you reacted to them?
Yes, and I am well aware of the differences in gun ownership in Switzerland and in the United States. Owners there are trained, expected to know how to use it. In the United States, you do not have to possess hardly any such thing. You, Phaedrus, and the Black Knight need to stop making unfounded assumptions about my position, learn to conduct a civil debate, or get the fuck out. Prior to today, I avoided using ad hominems, but I can see that this is simply going to devolve into a pissing match. So unless you want to engage in a serious discussion, I am done with you.

Don let the door bang you in the ass on the way out.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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23-12-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
(23-12-2012 04:39 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(23-12-2012 02:42 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Yes, and I am well aware of the differences in gun ownership in Switzerland and in the United States. Owners there are trained, expected to know how to use it. In the United States, you do not have to possess hardly any such thing. You, Phaedrus, and the Black Knight need to stop making unfounded assumptions about my position, learn to conduct a civil debate, or get the fuck out. Prior to today, I avoided using ad hominems, but I can see that this is simply going to devolve into a pissing match. So unless you want to engage in a serious discussion, I am done with you.

Don let the door bang you in the ass on the way out.
It is sad to see that you are so incredibly stupid that you refuse to engage in civil debate.

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Poonjab
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23-12-2012, 05:06 PM
Re: The Second Amendment (And The Militia)
Anyone who thinks the public would go up against the US military dosent know anything about the US military. The majority of combat arms personnel wouldnt take those orders.

It also wouldnt be a conventional war. The farmers of afghanistan have been running circles around the army and Marines in southern afghan for 11 years now bc they know how to exploit our ROEs and observance of the "rules of war" in the geneva convention.

How did we beat the brits again? It surely wasnt standing in ranks and waiting to get shot. How many Iraq and Afghan vets do we have now? The very people who trained our current military, who know a lot about insurgency bc they had to live it in order to come home.

But sure, keep thinkin a couple strange prepper gun nuts would be up against the military you see in recruiting commercials and movies.
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