The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
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28-06-2013, 10:27 AM
The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
I posted on my Facebook page that while I can think of many religious arguments against gay marriage, I could not think of any secular ones. (Bear in mind that I'm still not "out" with my atheism publicly, so my wording was very careful). I noted that the recent Supreme Court rulings had no effect on my marriage or my church, which was still free to choose which marriages it will recognize and which it will not. But I noted that I would rather see America govern itself according to secular principles than the principles of a religion I may or may not support.

A few people made a vain effort to argue a secular case, but they simply presented religious arguments while masking their religious origin.

Once the discussion died down, I questioned whether my friends (over 1,000, some of whom I barely know, culled from personal and professional introductions over the last decade) were the right ones to approach with the question of whether there is a compelling SECULAR argument against gay marriage.

So I throw the question to thinking atheists:
Is there a secular argument against gay marriage? If so, what is it?
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28-06-2013, 10:37 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
There is no rational argument against gay marriage for either side (secular/religious) that I have seen.

(discounting earmuffs' compelling argument against all forms of marriage) Tongue

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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28-06-2013, 10:39 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Its icky Laugh out load
kiddin
i have never met any atheist who has a thing against homosexuality.

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
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28-06-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
I cannot think of a credible argument against gay marriage from a secular point of view.

Every agrument I have heard stems from religion or people having issues with homosexuality in some way (be it religious or not).

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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28-06-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
The only people I've heard attempt to argue from a secular point of view were generally previous christians who are still holding onto some bit of their former "morality" perspectives. I haven't seen any secular arguments on it. If anyone claims of one, I would ask them to cite sources or STFU.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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28-06-2013, 10:42 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
The "secular" (hard to say with a straight face) argument is the appeal to tradition.

The religious tradition.

So no.

There really, really isn't.
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28-06-2013, 10:47 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
A very good question. I've yet to see a secular argument against homosexuality, so I've concluded that there isn't one.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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28-06-2013, 10:52 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
It's funny, I still remember the exact moment I made up my mind about homosexuality. Must have just been a few days after my full "deconversion moment". The topic came up in conversation and my wife asked me a rather pointed question about it that caused me to stop and think.

Took me about thirty seconds of (not very hard) thought without the god goggles on to completely discard any prejudice I had held toward homosexuality and realize the utter stupidity of holding any ill will towards loving humans who are no different than anyone else save their natural sexual tendencies.

I defy anyone to present a sound argument that gay people in any way, shape or form are detrimental to anything.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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28-06-2013, 11:26 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
All arguments I've heard and seen are derived from misinformation when they pretend not to be religious.
Arguments of "nature" are invalid since there's many other mammals that have homosexual behavior.
Arguments of "tradition" are derived from religion and are not valid per se anyway.
Arguments of disgust are not founded on reason and they're not objective.
Arguments of sicknesses/illnesses specific to homosexuality generally ignores these are actually transmissible between genders and not specific to homosexuality, in most cases I've seen, it's AIDS specifically that was cited. And that's almost 20 years after it's known to not discriminate between sexual inclinations.
The argument of "protection of children" generally confuses homosexuality and pedophilia.
The other argument of "protection of children" supposes same gender couples are not as capable to raise kids as heterosexual ones, and was scientifically proven wrong.
The other other argument of "protection of children" in the case of adoption or assisted conception is rather an argument about adoption laws and anonymity of donors versus the right of children. That argument is thus irrecevable in the case of stricto sensu marriage. Some law might have to be revised in order to get kids to know who they are biologically related to, but again, this isn't actually about marriage.

So no, from a strictly logical point of view, there's no argument against.
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28-06-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
There are some non-religious arguments I hear a lot, and all are terrible.

One is the claim that homosexuality is unnatural, which is absurd, since marriage is a human construct and the argument is coming from a clothed monkey typing on a keyboard. Even if it was unnatural - which it is not - unnatural has never been a guiding point of civilization.

The other is the claim that it will be abused for benefits - that straight people will marry people they don't love to take advantage of the system. Thing is, straight people account for the huge majority of the populace, and they've been marrying for millenia. Are straight couples today largely fraudulent schemes to avoid taxes? No! It's rare. Even if some people use gay marriage as a tax-avoidance scheme, that will be a very small number. How many straight men are going to marry their straight friends for a bit of money?

Slippery slope to bestiality. Udder nonsense. This isn't arbitrarily redefining marriage, this is keeping it the same: two adults who love each other forming a legal partnership. All gay marriage does is knock down the only a man and woman restriction, so as to allow any two adults. Animals aren't adult humans, and they cannot give consent. There is no slope.

Lastly, gay couples cannot reproduce. Oh, wow, marriage was about making as many babies as possible in a woman's lifetime? We're all doing it wrong then. I'll tell those childless couples, infertile people, seniors, single child families, and adoptive parents that they need to divorce ASAP. If you ent making a babby, then you better git out.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

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