The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
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28-06-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
You start sanctioning homosexuality and depreciating culturally derived gender roles, and soon comes homogenization, becoming increasingly susceptible to environmental fluctuation and essentially accelerating the EXTINCTION OF THE FUCKING SPECIES.

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28-06-2013, 11:55 AM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2013 09:51 AM by cjlr.)
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(28-06-2013 11:47 AM)Elesjei Wrote:  Slippery slope to bestiality. Udder nonsense. ...

That's either a typo or an awesome pun.

I prefer to think it's the latter.
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28-06-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Obviously the largest issue here is that in 90 days, heterosexuality will end.

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28-06-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
I've met a few homophobic Atheists, but none of their arguments were secular in anyway, they used the "nature" one, the closet one I could think of is "Society isn't ready"

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28-06-2013, 07:31 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
I don't think there really is any argument against homosexuality on either side. I've met two homophobic atheists and both their arguments were somehow connected to religion somehow.

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28-06-2013, 07:47 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Nah you guys do whatever you want save the world an exponential amount of resources for my progeny to consume. Just please not infront of me on the on the street cause the only thing worse than watching some ripped dude get more action than me on the street is watching two ripped dudes getting more action than me on the street. Lipstick lesbians get a pass, in fact....I'll be right back...

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29-06-2013, 09:10 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
The closest argument a secularist could get to making an argument against gay marriage is about economics and the well being of children. Consider that the primary legitimate benefit to society to promote marriage is to promote families that produce offspring. Supporting the well being of the next generation helps promote economic growth. A modest increase in population, so long as we have not reached levels that are overall detrimental to the world, promotes economic growth.

This argument breaks down when we consider the simple example that not all couples can reproduce, even if heterosexual. And then there are all these unwanted kids that need stable households. Homosexual couples who cannot reproduce without surrogacy or other similar extraordinary means would help fill a desperate need for adoptive parents if restrictions on their ability to adopt would be lifted. And a marriage by this homosexual couple would provide more stability which would benefit the adoptive child.

About the only argument against gay marriage that are not made from tradition or religion is an argument about family and child welfare in particular. It's the only argument that is not entirely irrational, but it is an exceptionally weak argument that is easily knocked down like I explain above. In fact, there is a good case that the argument about child welfare is really an argument on the side of gay marriage.
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29-06-2013, 09:25 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(29-06-2013 09:10 AM)BryanS Wrote:  The closest argument a secularist could get to making an argument against gay marriage is about economics and the well being of children. Consider that the primary legitimate benefit to society to promote marriage is to promote families that produce offspring. Supporting the well being of the next generation helps promote economic growth. A modest increase in population, so long as we have not reached levels that are overall detrimental to the world, promotes economic growth.

This argument breaks down when we consider the simple example that not all couples can reproduce, even if heterosexual. And then there are all these unwanted kids that need stable households. Homosexual couples who cannot reproduce without surrogacy or other similar extraordinary means would help fill a desperate need for adoptive parents if restrictions on their ability to adopt would be lifted. And a marriage by this homosexual couple would provide more stability which would benefit the adoptive child.

About the only argument against gay marriage that are not made from tradition or religion is an argument about family and child welfare in particular. It's the only argument that is not entirely irrational, but it is an exceptionally weak argument that is easily knocked down like I explain above. In fact, there is a good case that the argument about child welfare is really an argument on the side of gay marriage.

Flawed argument.
You can't "promote" gay marriage because straight people aren't going to marry other straight people because gay marriage sounds better...
And gay marriage doesn't mean gay people can't date and be an exclusive couple.
You can have gay couples without having gay marriage.
And gay couples can't have kids so aren't going to have kids.
Though if you legalize gay marriage then you give legal backing to things like gay married couples adopting children etc.. which would otherwise not be adopted out.

So I'd argue that gay marriage makes more economic sense.

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29-06-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(29-06-2013 09:25 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  So I'd argue that gay marriage makes more economic sense.

Consider

I made up an argument. Made-up ones are the only kind.

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29-06-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Hang on, I'll come up with something.

*puts thinking cap on*

Idea

Gay marriage should be illegal.
Because when gay guys see all their straight friends getting married they'll get all jelly and shit and want to get married too. As such gay men will start marring women left right and center.
As such domestic violence and shit will decrease. As will divorce (the guy's not about to go out and shag another female now is he... one is icky enough tyvm).

As another result, women, who are drawn to gay men because they're better dressers, more interesting, have more money, are into the same things they are, are better looking etc..., will marry gay men instead. As a result straight men will die alone in their single room apartments.
As a result the only children being born will be to gay guys and women. As a result, the overall testosterone level in humans will rapidly decrease, reducing world violence and such bringing the globe into a giant utopian paradise of gayness.

Religion will also die out, leaving the way clear for science and innovation.

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