The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
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30-06-2013, 09:26 PM
The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
What the fuck do other species of living things (relatively few) have to do with the man made institution of marriage?

What kind of stupid argument is: hey the shabashit birds have life long partners so.....that means that the man made institution is a natural institution and not man made. Is that what you guys are arguing?
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30-06-2013, 09:40 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
No there is none - but it is a very good illustration of exactly why religion needs to stay out of government and out of peoples personal lives.
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01-07-2013, 04:24 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(30-06-2013 09:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  What the fuck do other species of living things (relatively few) have to do with the man made institution of marriage?

What kind of stupid argument is: hey the shabashit birds have life long partners so.....that means that the man made institution is a natural institution and not man made. Is that what you guys are arguing?

No, you're mistaking.

The point is, mine at least, you don't need marriage to have a life long relationship.
As demonstrated in nature (as well as a few humans). The Icelandic Puffin for example mates for life without the need of marriage.

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01-07-2013, 04:30 AM
The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 04:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(30-06-2013 09:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  What the fuck do other species of living things (relatively few) have to do with the man made institution of marriage?

What kind of stupid argument is: hey the shabashit birds have life long partners so.....that means that the man made institution is a natural institution and not man made. Is that what you guys are arguing?

No, you're mistaking.

The point is, mine at least, you don't need marriage to have a life long relationship.
As demonstrated in nature (as well as a few humans). The Icelandic Puffin for example mates for life without the need of marriage.

What does human partnerships have to do with non human partnerships? Humans form partnerships for completely different reasons that have nothing to do with other species.
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01-07-2013, 04:32 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
We are just animals afterall so it's interesting to compare us to other animals.
The point is, from an evolutionarily stand point, life long partnerships are not a one off occurrence, unlike say your awful hair cut.

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01-07-2013, 05:07 AM
The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 04:32 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  We are just animals afterall so it's interesting to compare us to other animals.
The point is, from an evolutionarily stand point, life long partnerships are not a one off occurrence, unlike say your awful hair cut.

Where did you learn biology? Again, care to explain how the actions of another species relates to human interaction and bonds made between humans?
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01-07-2013, 08:15 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 05:07 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-07-2013 04:32 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  We are just animals afterall so it's interesting to compare us to other animals.
The point is, from an evolutionarily stand point, life long partnerships are not a one off occurrence, unlike say your awful hair cut.

Where did you learn biology? Again, care to explain how the actions of another species relates to human interaction and bonds made between humans?

We are apes.
All animals are related and there are parallels in the evolution of behaviors even for widely diverse species.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-07-2013, 08:44 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Pair bonding is of evolutionary origin.

Marriage is as well, but not in the same way. Humans evolved to be social animals. We are, in many senses, interdependent. Thus, it behooved us to develop social relationships that are recognized and respected by others within our society. In this way, the man and the woman could feel comfortable leaving each other's presence without concern that another man or woman would break this bond. If I felt that I could not leave my home without someone coming over and taking possession of my house and claiming my wife, I would never leave my home. That would run counter to the needs of the society as a whole (I'm being gender-specific here, but it works both ways).

Social evolution can very easily be secular. Religion can be one way of codifying social evolution. The law is another. I do not buy marriage as being a religious construct, seeing as marriage transcends religion so pervasively. It's a social relationship, secular in origin, that religion has sought to define, restrict and control.
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01-07-2013, 08:49 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Is it me or do a lot of folks around here use the natural world as a supporting argument when it suits them and cry 'social darwinism' when it doesn't?

Not naming any names... Just a general observation.

For the record I think pair bonding in birds is totally relevant to the conversation here.

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01-07-2013, 10:34 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 08:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-07-2013 05:07 AM)I and I Wrote:  Where did you learn biology? Again, care to explain how the actions of another species relates to human interaction and bonds made between humans?

We are apes.
All animals are related and there are parallels in the evolution of behaviors even for widely diverse species.

Hmm did we just discover that I&I is an evolution denier?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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