The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
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01-07-2013, 11:01 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
So this topic (not this thread: I'm talking about this topic in real life) may be a major stepping stone in my coming out as an atheist. Currently debating my cousin on whether gays are born that way.

He wrote: "And there is no way I will believe that they are born into it."

I responded: "They didn't ask you."
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01-07-2013, 11:08 AM
The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 11:01 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  So this topic (not this thread: I'm talking about this topic in real life) may be a major stepping stone in my coming out as an atheist. Currently debating my cousin on whether gays are born that way.

He wrote: "And there is no way I will believe that they are born into it."

I responded: "They didn't ask you."

I once asked my gay cousin if he liked and desired Mexican food before he was born, he said "that isn't possible"
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01-07-2013, 11:12 AM
The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
How does pair bonding in different species somehow tie them together? That is like saying " well some animals eat their vomit-therefore humans eating vomit is natural because we evolved from animals. What the fuck kind of bullshit argument is that?
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01-07-2013, 11:21 AM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 11:12 AM)I and I Wrote:  How does pair bonding in different species somehow tie them together? That is like saying " well some animals eat their vomit-therefore humans eating vomit is natural because we evolved from animals. What the fuck kind of bullshit argument is that?

All life is related to a common ancestor, the closer the common ancestor and the more common the behavior in general the safer it is to assume that humanity possess some inclination toward a given behavior, it won't always be the case and to a large extent our frontal lobes allow us to subvert or channel a good deal of this behavior, but I still think you can form hypothesis for testing based on the rest of the natural world...

In the case of vomiting up food we have probably evolved away from this our common ancestors are neither cud chewers (who eat their own vomit) or pure carnivores (who need to return food for their young). Instead we have arms to carry food back, breasts for feeding young milk, and a digestive system and diet that does not require regurgitation.

In the case of mating however there is little to suggest that the reasons birds pair up are different from the reasons we do. Pairing is beneficial to the genes responsible and the birds and the people in question have found an ESS.

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01-07-2013, 12:51 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Aye Aye: The issue of pair bonding is simply a part of (not the entirety of) the argument that the marriage relationship has a secular origin. Marriage transcends religion and exists outside of it. That's the only point being made.

As to liking Mexican food before you're born, you're deliberately being silly. And that's cool. But it's also irrelevant. I was born straight. I did not like women before I was born. I liked them from my earliest memory of what it meant to be sexually attracted to someone. I have never been sexually attracted to men. I was born this way.

Now, you may choose to believe that I made a conscious choice at some point in my life, but you'd be... what's the polite way to put this... talking out of your ass. Which, as most things with that origin, stinks.

In any event, I asked for a secular argument against gay marriage. Hearing none, I move we adjourn. But if you've got one, go for it. (I'm not interested in a religious argument against gay marriage. If that's what you want to talk about, have at it. But it's off topic on this thread).
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01-07-2013, 06:48 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 11:08 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-07-2013 11:01 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  So this topic (not this thread: I'm talking about this topic in real life) may be a major stepping stone in my coming out as an atheist. Currently debating my cousin on whether gays are born that way.

He wrote: "And there is no way I will believe that they are born into it."

I responded: "They didn't ask you."

I once asked my gay cousin if he liked and desired Mexican food before he was born, he said "that isn't possible"

I asked my bald cousin if he chose to be bald... Drinking Beverage

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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01-07-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 06:48 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(01-07-2013 11:08 AM)I and I Wrote:  I once asked my gay cousin if he liked and desired Mexican food before he was born, he said "that isn't possible"

I asked my bald cousin if he chose to be bald... Drinking Beverage

Thats a better alternative to having I&I haircut...

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-07-2013, 06:59 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
Lol, it's funny because his hair cut is so fucking horrible.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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02-07-2013, 03:16 PM
The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(01-07-2013 11:21 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(01-07-2013 11:12 AM)I and I Wrote:  How does pair bonding in different species somehow tie them together? That is like saying " well some animals eat their vomit-therefore humans eating vomit is natural because we evolved from animals. What the fuck kind of bullshit argument is that?

All life is related to a common ancestor, the closer the common ancestor and the more common the behavior in general the safer it is to assume that humanity possess some inclination toward a given behavior, it won't always be the case and to a large extent our frontal lobes allow us to subvert or channel a good deal of this behavior, but I still think you can form hypothesis for testing based on the rest of the natural world...

In the case of vomiting up food we have probably evolved away from this our common ancestors are neither cud chewers (who eat their own vomit) or pure carnivores (who need to return food for their young). Instead we have arms to carry food back, breasts for feeding young milk, and a digestive system and diet that does not require regurgitation.

In the case of mating however there is little to suggest that the reasons birds pair up are different from the reasons we do. Pairing is beneficial to the genes responsible and the birds and the people in question have found an ESS.

What human do you know actively goes around copying early human ancestor action?

I threw that one right over the plate, here it comes.
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02-07-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage: Is there one?
(02-07-2013 03:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(01-07-2013 11:21 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  All life is related to a common ancestor, the closer the common ancestor and the more common the behavior in general the safer it is to assume that humanity possess some inclination toward a given behavior, it won't always be the case and to a large extent our frontal lobes allow us to subvert or channel a good deal of this behavior, but I still think you can form hypothesis for testing based on the rest of the natural world...

In the case of vomiting up food we have probably evolved away from this our common ancestors are neither cud chewers (who eat their own vomit) or pure carnivores (who need to return food for their young). Instead we have arms to carry food back, breasts for feeding young milk, and a digestive system and diet that does not require regurgitation.

In the case of mating however there is little to suggest that the reasons birds pair up are different from the reasons we do. Pairing is beneficial to the genes responsible and the birds and the people in question have found an ESS.

What human do you know actively goes around copying early human ancestor action?

I threw that one right over the plate, here it comes.

I nominate I&I who likes to find patterns where none exist, he also displays a very regressive form of socialisation and a horrible haircut.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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