The Senates torture report
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17-12-2014, 07:24 AM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2014 07:34 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: The Senates torture report
I guess we could have just dragged them out in front of a camera in an orange jumpsuit and beheaded them with a dull knife...now where did I see that over and over again Consider

My only problem with this is IF they were not hard core terrorists entering GITMO, they were exiting it.

Outside of that, war is hell, rules and high browed ideals of prisoner care are only carried out by ....usually UK and America, and maybe a couple others...at least somewhat, while our enemies torture us and behead our citizens. We also sleep deprive, beat and waterboard every US airman when they go through the survival course required for flight crew ....wonder why no one has complained yet Consider

Yeah yeah I know, "we should be better than that", that falls under the turn the other cheek pussy mentality. These animals only respect one thing; raw violence, special pleadings for intel by back rubs and pillow fights don't make any affect on them. Monday morning quarterbacking by those who have never been in combat is about as relevant as a junior high school kid debating national security tactics. Watching CNN and listening to bleeding heart media types spin info to maximize outrage to get an understanding of the inner workings of anti terrorism tactics and warfare is disingenuous, and misinformed.

Although I get it, sitting back in our easy chair sipping coffee and making passionate clueless assertions about how to conduct war and second guessing those who are and have been in combat is an easy sport, and sadly very popular these days...perhaps you would like to slap on a uniform and go to the front lines to "make a change" while risking your life as blow hard politicians and those too scared to fight for their country judge your every move and tie your hands behind your back with "disciplined restraint" policies.

Don't want to get into this, really don't. Just my two cents...having spent a few years dodging bullets and seeing first hand these fucking animals up close and personal, I shed no tears for any of them, or their water boarding...boo fucking hoo, at least you are alive. Go blow up some more children

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-12-2014, 07:57 AM
AW: RE: The Senates torture report
(17-12-2014 07:24 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I guess we could have just dragged them out in front of a camera in an orange jumpsuit and beheaded them with a dull knife...now where did I see that over and over again Consider

My only problem with this is IF they were not hard core terrorists entering GITMO, they were exiting it.

Outside of that, war is hell, rules and high browed ideals of prisoner care are only carried out by ....usually UK and America, and maybe a couple others...at least somewhat, while our enemies torture us and behead our citizens. We also sleep deprive, beat and waterboard every US airman when they go through the survival course required for flight crew ....wonder why no one has complained yet Consider

Yeah yeah I know, "we should be better than that", that falls under the turn the other cheek pussy mentality. These animals only respect one thing; raw violence, special pleadings for intel by back rubs and pillow fights don't make any affect on them. Monday morning quarterbacking by those who have never been in combat is about as relevant as a junior high school kid debating national security tactics. Watching CNN and listening to bleeding heart media types spin info to maximize outrage to get an understanding of the inner workings of anti terrorism tactics and warfare is disingenuous, and misinformed.

Although I get it, sitting back in our easy chair sipping coffee and making passionate clueless assertions about how to conduct war and second guessing those who are and have been in combat is an easy sport, and sadly very popular these days...perhaps you would like to slap on a uniform and go to the front lines to "make a change" while risking your life as blow hard politicians and those too scared to fight for their country judge your every move and tie your hands behind your back with "disciplined restraint" policies.

Don't want to get into this, really don't. Just my two cents...having spent a few years dodging bullets and seeing first hand these fucking animals up close and personal, I shed no tears for any of them, or their water boarding...boo fucking hoo, at least you are alive. Go blow up some more children
What the fuck, GWG? Are you for real? Are you seriously defending the CIA's actions? :shocked:

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17-12-2014, 08:29 AM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2014 10:57 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: The Senates torture report
(17-12-2014 07:57 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(17-12-2014 07:24 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I guess we could have just dragged them out in front of a camera in an orange jumpsuit and beheaded them with a dull knife...now where did I see that over and over again Consider

My only problem with this is IF they were not hard core terrorists entering GITMO, they were exiting it.

Outside of that, war is hell, rules and high browed ideals of prisoner care are only carried out by ....usually UK and America, and maybe a couple others...at least somewhat, while our enemies torture us and behead our citizens. We also sleep deprive, beat and waterboard every US airman when they go through the survival course required for flight crew ....wonder why no one has complained yet Consider

Yeah yeah I know, "we should be better than that", that falls under the turn the other cheek pussy mentality. These animals only respect one thing; raw violence, special pleadings for intel by back rubs and pillow fights don't make any affect on them. Monday morning quarterbacking by those who have never been in combat is about as relevant as a junior high school kid debating national security tactics. Watching CNN and listening to bleeding heart media types spin info to maximize outrage to get an understanding of the inner workings of anti terrorism tactics and warfare is disingenuous, and misinformed.

Although I get it, sitting back in our easy chair sipping coffee and making passionate clueless assertions about how to conduct war and second guessing those who are and have been in combat is an easy sport, and sadly very popular these days...perhaps you would like to slap on a uniform and go to the front lines to "make a change" while risking your life as blow hard politicians and those too scared to fight for their country judge your every move and tie your hands behind your back with "disciplined restraint" policies.

Don't want to get into this, really don't. Just my two cents...having spent a few years dodging bullets and seeing first hand these fucking animals up close and personal, I shed no tears for any of them, or their water boarding...boo fucking hoo, at least you are alive. Go blow up some more children
What the fuck, GWG? Are you for real? Are you seriously defending the CIA's actions? :shocked:

No, I am just voicing my frustration over people's views on the shitty reality of war. They behead us, and torture us, and we should sit down with a cup of coffee and engage in conversation, because that gets results. I am not advocating torture, I am saying I truly could give a F less what the terrorists went through. In a perfect world this stuff wouldnt happen, but in a perfect world people dont hijack planes and slam them into buildings, they dont strap bombs to their own children, they dont storm a school and shoot 141 children dead....and if I am in a room with someone suspected to be involved with that, who has info I may be able to glean to prevent that....I am not sure where my morals would end, and the interrogation stops to be honest. I am too personally invested in this subject, my best friend was killed by a sniper while standing 3 feet from me, and we couldn't shoot back because of the "disciplined restraint" guidelines...they can hide in schools and mosques and shoot at us, and we just have to hunker down and hold our nuts....we have so many fucking rules for combat, and the enemy has none. That sounds good to ma and pa cooter back home in their comfy living room, not so much for the guy in the uniform trying to stay alive.

I have dealt with these pieces of shit too many years...their ideology and way of life is so fucking barbaric and delusional it makes you want to scream. I am glad I dont have the big red button for I would wipe them off the face of the earth, and solve the never ending problem once and for all.....but that is anger, and frustration talking...again, I am too personally and emotionally involved in this subject to think clearly.

You cant say fight terrorist animals and then provide a 700 page document instructing us with rules of war...it just causes more causalities on our side...good men dying because of F ing rules. I understand we need rules, of course, but it is easy for arm chair quarterbacks to judge what happens in a combat zone under fire after the fact.

They went a bit far, I wouldnt have done that stuff, I would have gotten info by waterboarding then put a bullet in the back of their head....we "torture" every one of our guys going through survival school with exception of some of the most extreme stuff listed of course...that doesnt make what the CIA did right, but I am just not too teary eyed about some piece of shit getting waterboarded if I think I can prevent another attack from information he may know....in the REALITY of war, it is the inconvenient horror of war...it isnt pretty or politically correct....war never is.

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-12-2014, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 07:42 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: The Senates torture report
Please don't misconstrue what I am saying....I got hot under the collar, I always do when people start whipping opinions about how we should conduct warfare..when you are in the shit, and have to worry about all these get-you-killed-rules it just frustrates the hell out of you. We have to be better than these pieces of human garbage...but for example, if one of those school shooters in Pakistan survived, and I was in charge of interrogating him....I don't want to think about how far I would go to squeeze him until he popped........this shit just dehumanizes you...that is the problem with war. How do you walk into a school and shoot 141 kids? How? I am so mad I can't see straight.

UGh

Hope I didn't offend anyone or make you think less of me...but it gets me spun up when people boohoo over the way these "still alive" terrorists were "inhumanely" treated by the CIA contractors.......I can not honestly say I would do different...I would like to think I woould...but you never know until you are in that situation....again, I am too personally and emotionally involved. 3 tours in Iraq was enough for me. I dont ever want to go back...just want to retire in a year and get me a non military related job, build a house and spend my last years holding my angel and being thankful I am alive to do so...

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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18-12-2014, 09:31 AM
RE: The Senates torture report
(17-12-2014 07:10 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  . How do you walk into a school and shoot 141 kids? How? I am so mad I can't see straight.

I think if you really want the question answered to "how do you just go shoot 141 kids," you should really read your own post. Your own rage and hatred is clearly in the same vein as theirs. Its a normal human feeling to want revenge. The Taliban in Pakistan want revenge for their own losses, the children they attacked were the children of their enemies. I don't agree with it, and I agree its horrible and evil, but I can understand it.

In your own expressions of rage and anger you say you'd be willing to "squeeze them till they popped." How much further from there is it to murdering their families to hurt them? Its just a different degree of human hatred. I understand your feelings and share a lot of them, but if we want to be "the good guys" instead of just the "better armed guys" we need to think rationally about our feelings and be in control of them.

Hatred begets hatred, and it can easily consume you. Those who fight evil must be careful to not become evil.
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18-12-2014, 02:37 PM
RE: The Senates torture report
(17-12-2014 07:24 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I guess we could have just dragged them out in front of a camera in an orange jumpsuit and beheaded them with a dull knife...now where did I see that over and over again Consider

My only problem with this is IF they were not hard core terrorists entering GITMO, they were exiting it.

Outside of that, war is hell, rules and high browed ideals of prisoner care are only carried out by ....usually UK and America, and maybe a couple others...at least somewhat, while our enemies torture us and behead our citizens. We also sleep deprive, beat and waterboard every US airman when they go through the survival course required for flight crew ....wonder why no one has complained yet Consider

Yeah yeah I know, "we should be better than that", that falls under the turn the other cheek pussy mentality. These animals only respect one thing; raw violence, special pleadings for intel by back rubs and pillow fights don't make any affect on them. Monday morning quarterbacking by those who have never been in combat is about as relevant as a junior high school kid debating national security tactics. Watching CNN and listening to bleeding heart media types spin info to maximize outrage to get an understanding of the inner workings of anti terrorism tactics and warfare is disingenuous, and misinformed.

Although I get it, sitting back in our easy chair sipping coffee and making passionate clueless assertions about how to conduct war and second guessing those who are and have been in combat is an easy sport, and sadly very popular these days...perhaps you would like to slap on a uniform and go to the front lines to "make a change" while risking your life as blow hard politicians and those too scared to fight for their country judge your every move and tie your hands behind your back with "disciplined restraint" policies.

Don't want to get into this, really don't. Just my two cents...having spent a few years dodging bullets and seeing first hand these fucking animals up close and personal, I shed no tears for any of them, or their water boarding...boo fucking hoo, at least you are alive. Go blow up some more children

No, the problem is not so much the other terrorist but the way america does it. America not only goes around saying they are the heroic country, but then goes around and does some terrorist shit. Lets be real, americans have killed more people there in the middle east than they have here. Hell we started out in Iraq, the country that had nothing to do with even 9/11. The CIA has no rights torturing anybody. There is a reason why there is a saying two wrongs don't make a right. This is not about war, this is about hypocrisy of the U.S., as when we are attacked we are the ones who sit down as if we are the good guys, then go and doing something even worst to the other country, hell even the fucking civilians and sit down and say "that is not terrorism, we are just fighting for liberty," are some bullshit like that. This is not to say that the people who did 9/11 did not kill civilians, but when you compare americas retaliations to attacks that happen to them you will realize that america is just a terrorist country waiting for an excuse to terrorize and get away with it. I don't think less of you by the way, just think that two wrongs don't make a right.

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18-12-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: The Senates torture report
I agree with both of your points, but I was being brutally honest. I shed no tears for the scum that think killing kids to further their agenda is a viable option. I have zero problem waterboarding a terrorist...and you are right....who is a terrorist depends on which side of the situation you are in...in their world, we are the terrorists, but the difference is we arent beheading people on video, we dont stone our women to death, we dont strap bombs to the chests of children, we dont go in schools and shoot 141 kids...yes, we drop bombs, yes there is collateral damage, no war is clean, never is...we also interrogate terrorists...but in comparison of the two groups, I think we hold a much higher standard of humanity, ...shades of grey as it were, but we are grey and they are fucking as dark black as you can get..although I do not agree with some of the methods the CIA contractors used. NO, there is no situation where I would shoot someone's kids, I may beat the terrorist with a large hammer until he is a red stain on the concrete, but I would never hurt a child.

two wrongs dont make a right, but a lesser wrong can correct greater wrongs...like those who kill children. Life isnt black and white, it is all shades of grey, that is the inconvenient truth.

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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18-12-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: The Senates torture report
(18-12-2014 02:50 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I agree with both of your points, but I was being brutally honest. I shed no tears for the scum that think killing kids to further their agenda is a viable option. I have zero problem waterboarding a terrorist...and you are right....who is a terrorist depends on which side of the situation you are in...in their world, we are the terrorists, but the difference is we arent beheading people on video, we dont stone our women to death, we dont strap bombs to the chests of children, we dont go in schools and shoot 141 kids...yes, we drop bombs, yes there is collateral damage, no war is clean, never is...we also interrogate terrorists...but in comparison of the two groups, I think we hold a much higher standard of humanity, ...shades of grey as it were, but we are grey and they are fucking as dark black as you can get..although I do not agree with some of the methods the CIA contractors used. NO, there is no situation where I would shoot someone's kids, I may beat the terrorist with a large hammer until he is a red stain on the concrete, but I would never hurt a child.

two wrongs dont make a right, but a lesser wrong can correct greater wrongs...like those who kill children. Life isnt black and white, it is all shades of grey, that is the inconvenient truth.

Let us not forget we fucking robbed their country, ruined their homes, killed more than fucking 650,000 civilians there alone. And lets go over the fact america never tells us anything. America also has people shooting up their own schools all the fucking time, a country in which woman are being murdered all the fucking time, a country in which claims to be the best, and yet doesn't understand why nobody likes it. Also keep in mind we are not more advanced than them, the middle east has many things the U.S has. The difference is america is skilled at propoganda and can make brain washing easy as pie. Like that "support our troops" propoganda. Also if anything we are the greater wrong. Comparing the deaths we have caused them and the deaths we have caused us, it seems they are in the lesser.

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18-12-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: The Senates torture report
Whether we're the good guys, or they are, or nobody is, is irrelevant!

If it required the painful removal of a person's toe nails (or some other torture) to find the location of, and disarm, a bomb you know is about to blow before it kills 250 kindergarteners, and you completely refuse simply to hold up a "we don't torture" principle, 250 kids be damned, who is the more vile, again?

Bottom line, if I knew for a fact (I'll leave the "maybe's" to better tough-decision makers) the torture of one failed suicide bomber would indeed save hundreds of innocents I'd make the awful call.
Unfortunately, I also think that anyone (including U.S. soldiers) who enjoys the tortures they've been ordered to dish out should be routinely treated with doses of their own medicine! Undecided

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18-12-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: The Senates torture report
(18-12-2014 03:42 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Whether we're the good guys, or they are, or nobody is, is irrelevant!

If it required the painful removal of a person's toe nails (or some other torture) to find the location of, and disarm, a bomb you know is about to blow before it kills 250 kindergarteners, and you completely refuse simply to hold up a "we don't torture" principle, 250 kids be damned, who is the more vile, again?

Bottom line, if I knew for a fact (I'll leave the "maybe's" to better tough-decision makers) the torture of one failed suicide bomber would indeed save hundreds of innocents I'd make the awful call.
Unfortunately, I also think that anyone (including U.S. soldiers) who enjoys the tortures they've been ordered to dish out should be routinely treated with doses of their own medicine! Undecided

That is if we assume he is going to be honest

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