The Siberian Fox
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24-03-2011, 02:46 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
Isn't that guy a total retard?

I've watched videos of his before and everything he says seems to be some sort of rhetorical nonsense aimed at attacking anyone who doesn't fit into his extremist pseudo-liberal viewpoint.
I have no idea what he's talking about because he also talks like a mental patient, so like an overview?

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Leonard Nimoy
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24-03-2011, 03:01 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
He points out that a lot of studies show that halal isn't as common as people think.
Some halal butcheries even stun animals before slaughter - *gasp*
Listen to the studies he cites and look them up for yourself - no need to believe anyone until you check the evidence for yourself Wink

See how much halal there actually is :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ds-newsxml

Stunning and halal :
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10...awake.html

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24-03-2011, 03:10 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
According to those articles it's much more common than I thought a few minutes ago O-O

As for the stunning thing; many muslims believe that stunning taints the flesh, so it's very rare for it to happen. I'd say that many of the pre-jihad immigrants would use stunning to adapt to native culture as they have in many other areas, but as far as you'd see on the places that all sprung up in the last 10 years it would be rare, and it's generally accepted by law that halal butchers are immune from the standards put onto every other slaughter house.

Still; even if all halal slaughter houses used stunning it wouldn't take away from the oddity that it is. With most of the country being served halal meat, often in secret; what the hell is going on with that? We don't like in the middle east and we're not all muslim. Islam doesn't even have the Christian excuse of "we can impose ourselves onto you because christianity is older than modern culture"
Still there is the big thing: if halal meat wasn't killed with the traditional cruelty; why do shops often hide that they sell it?

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Leonard Nimoy
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24-03-2011, 03:22 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
I don't know why the mislabeling exists but it bothers me as well.
Besides that , I don't have that big of an issue with it.Trust me when I say halal(and kosher) is much more merciful http://www.leafpile.com/TravelLog/Romani...ig/Pig.htm
"But its howling squeals garner it no pity. Three men struggle to attach a second cord and pull its legs back to expose its throat.

One puncture begins an inexorable flood of blood, and death comes after a minute of unanswered trumpeting calls for help.

It makes a sound like a dying dinosaur."

The pig is usually killed by stabbing in the throat and it takes it a while to die , especially since the wound is smaller than a slashed throat you see in halal or kosher.

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24-03-2011, 04:07 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
A friend of mine worked in a slaughter house that processes pigs. They have to stun them by law.
Can't say for Europe or America though, just for Britain.

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25-03-2011, 07:08 AM
RE: The Siberian Fox
Well the stunning thing was introduced in Romania but most prefer the traditional approach to pig slaughter and many can't afford a stunner - seriously we have villages that don't have electricity , running water or communication lines - literally the dark ages.

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25-03-2011, 07:46 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
That's pretty much the stereotype xD

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Leonard Nimoy
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26-03-2011, 12:42 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
A few things:

Glue from animals: This is a widely condemned practice, but usually by people unaware of how it's done. VERY few animals are slaughtered for glue. Most are slaughtered for other reasons, and the use of the carcass for glue is secondary. This provides two things. First, an environmentally friendlier (not great, but better than chemical glues) product, and second, using an animal that's been killed to the best of our ability. If you are against the use of animals for glue, then it's a good idea to be clear that you oppose slaughter for the specific purpose of making glue and not using an animal that has been slaughtered for other reasons.

Humane slaughter: There is still much debate over humane slaughter, and whether stunning is nescessarily more humane that other methods. Although I am one who considers humane slaughter important, strangely, it's not my priority. The slaughter of an animal lasts minutes, even when done poorly. (And poor slaughtering practice is a horrific thing, don't get me wrong) but what's worse is the treatment of the animal during it's life and leading up to the slaughter. My preference is to see as little sufferering as possible, but were I forced to choose between a good life or a good slaughter for an animal, I'd choose a good life. Just have a look at a cattle feedlot for example. Or inside a hog barn. or even worse, a factory chicken house.

Leather: Most of the leather used for shoes and clothing comes from animals raised specifically for that purpose. It's shameful the way cattle are slaughtered for meat, and their skins thrown away because it's not "worthwhile" to process them because it's difficult to remove skin from an animal that's been forced to gain weight so quickly that it's skin hasn't had time to grow with it and has become thin and stretched. The same goes for cows raised for leather. They are often starved before slaughter, to ease the removal of the skin and to avoid as much damage as possible. This usually renders the meat inedible.

The suffering and waste is horrible. But the worst part is that not only is it unnescessary, but every time you buy Nike shoes and a hamburger at McDonalds, you are not only contributing to that suffering and waste, but actually encouraging it. And yet, I still hear people talk about how it's cruel to hunt deer where I live. The deer population is out of control because we've basically eliminated it's natural predators, so the deer are starving to death. Every hunter I've ever met uses as much of the animal as possible (meat AND hide). But they think it's cruel because they think that deer are pretty, and living this idyllic life. All the while preaching to me with grease from the burger in their hand running down their chins and dripping onto their leather coats.

This is all a matter of deciding to use humanely treated clothes/food/whatever. You don't even need to speak out against inhumane treatment. Just stop supporting it and the ones who do it will no longer bother, since they can't turn that sickening behavior into the all mighty dollar.

Whew! Ok, now that my rant is complete, just some follow up clarity. I'm not making accusations of you guys. I just want to point out that often things are different that what they seem. Leather from cows used for meat is a good example. While the intent is noble, most don't realize that they are doing more harm than good. Few cows are killed for both, even though they should be.

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27-03-2011, 12:22 PM
RE: The Siberian Fox
Never heard about that. Is it specific to the US or does it happen in the EU as well ? I think our laws are a bit stricter that's all.
Well , I don't have a problem with animals being raised for specific purposes but starving a cow to kill it for hides is not ok. I do have leather jackets that are local made. I know the cows are multi purpose because most Romanian farmers are poor and can't afford specific breeds of cows/pigs but there are industrial chicken farmers which are utter crap.
Thankfully the EU has a law that you have to stamp a number on eggs : 0 -eco , 1 -can't remember , 2 -chicken raised in barn(i.e 1000 chickens in a single barn) , 3 -industrial chicken farm. It's the first number in the string of digits printed on each egg.Check it out if you're in the EU.
Hunting is ok as far as I'm concerned but I hate it when people do it for sport. It's ok they donate the recently killed animals to people to eat but I don't get the fun in blasting away 100 wild boars - seriously.
As for fast food Stark - it's a big problem , but when I'm at a restaurant I admit , I don't think what life the burger or chicken nugget in front of me had , I just eat up.Probably a mistake on my part. Sad
BTW - you may be happy to know , cows in Japan that produce kobe beef , the most expensive beef in the world , get a massage daily Tongue

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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