The "Stranger Danger" Myth
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26-05-2012, 10:57 PM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(26-05-2012 08:18 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Not at all fond of the attitude received so I'm bowing out.

Wow. OK.
If you detected any "attitude" in my reply, you have some of the world's thinnest skin.
Might be a little attitude in this post, though.

Quote:But here is where I read this

"My point is that Stranger Danger "education"
is completely unnecessary and has been found to be counterproductive. " -Quidsane

That's where I got counterproductive.

I never said education about possible dangers was counterproductive.
I said Stranger Danger "education" has been found to be counterproductive.
There is a marked difference between the two.
I also posted a link in the OP about how counterproductive Stranger Danger can be:

Does 'stranger danger' go too far?

It's about how Brennan Hawkins, a missing 11-year-old Utah Boy Scout could
have been rescued earlier but he wouldn't talk to strangers looking for him.

Which is counterproductive.

Quote:Also if your parents never made you aware of the dangers of lightning then you are of a small minority I would imagine.
Or you likely live somewhere this is not a common occurrence. I'm not going to really get into it because it seems like a very stupid argument to enter into.

What argument? Seriously.
Did you not read the phrase "tongue-in-cheek"? Do you know what it means? Sheesh.
Thin-skinned and no sense of humor. Great combo.

Quote:All I was saying is that making kids aware of potential danger is never a bad thing, how could it be?

And again, I never said it was.
Awareness of potential danger was never the issue.
Why do you keep responding as though it is?

Quote:I also highly doubt that most kids are going to be terrified of their shadows because of stranger danger advertisements.
I lived through the real big push of these things and I don't remember it bothering me one way or another.

Way to minimalize. Rolleyes It's a cheap tactic.
I never said advertisements alone were causing fear in anyone.

Quote:Sure some kids will become terrified to leave their homes but how high of a number is that going to be really?
And would those kids not likely just find something else to be terrified of?

What an amazing rationale you've put forward.
So, because you think this is a low number, it should be disregarded.
Replace the blue words with "be abducted". That's an extremely low number, isn't it? (relatively speaking)
Now bathe in the irony.

As for the second question, finding "something else to be terrified of" is exactly what Stranger Danger is all about.

Quote:Whatever, attitude sucks here so bye.

If I may be so bold:
I'm detecting a resistance akin to showing scientific data to a religious person.
Even though you acknowledged the data, there's a feeling of "I don't care, I still believe in Stranger Danger".
Should analytical thinking skills go out the window when the subject is a touchy one?
Or is this just a case of you detecting "attitude" whenever someone disagrees with you?

Either way, you've blown things out of proportion.
Sorry to see you go.

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26-05-2012, 11:06 PM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
Jezz Quidsane you need to drink a cup of chill the fuck out.

And for the record, YOU don't get it.

Like I said, and you completely missed my point, was that those statistics are low because of education.
If there was no education those statistics would increase, so like Lucradis said, where is the harm in that!?

Its like the swine flu, that was blown way out of proportion BUT that did have potential to be something. Diseases, viruses, plague all shit has very real potential to kill a shit load of people.

What I am getting at is it is far better off to be safe then sorry.

You'll can stand there and preach how your kids were never abducted or how its been blown way out of proportion or whatever, BUT the fact is that it does happen. It does happen. 115 children is still 115 children.


Plus, how fucking hard is it to teach stranger danger. It takes like 5minutes at most. 5minutes can be the difference between a happy child playing at a park and a sad child getting rapped in some creeps basement.
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27-05-2012, 12:43 AM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(26-05-2012 11:06 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Jezz Quidsane you need to drink a cup of chill the fuck out.

And for the record, YOU don't get it.

No need to be a prick. And you're clearly still missing the point of this thread.

Quote:those statistics are low because of education. If there was no education those statistics would increase

Source please.
(This is sarcasm; we both know you have no source for this.)

Quote:You'll can stand there and preach how your kids were never abducted or how its been blown way out of proportion or whatever,
BUT the fact is that it does happen. It does happen. 115 children is still 115 children.

I know. I quoted the stat. Of course it happens. And it's sad. Did I say otherwise?
MY point is 74,782,060 children (2010 census) are not those 115 children.
That's 0.00015378019808494177 percent for those keeping score.
And that is certainly no reason for panties to be in a twist.
According to the World Health Organization, nearly 47,000 children fall to their deaths every year.
47,000 children are still 47,000 children. Where is your moral outrage about that? Where are the PSA's? The classes?
This thread is about perspective. I realize it's an emotional topic, but try reading the data with a cooler head.

Quote:Plus, how fucking hard is it to teach stranger danger. It takes like 5minutes at most.

Who cares? Again, that's not what this thread is about.
This thread is about a lot more than "five minutes". Go back and read it again.
The "stranger danger" referenced in this thread is not a five-minute sit-down with your child.
It's a well-intentioned, and ultimately misguided, fear-mongering movement that is not based on factual information.

Quote:5minutes can be the difference between a happy child playing at a park and a sad child getting rapped in some creeps basement.

An example of a grandiose claim that you feel to be true.
There's no evidence for your claim. If anything, there's evidence to the contrary.
If you want to challenge the data, then bring something of substance to the table.
The fact is: the data does not support what Stranger Danger programs teach.
Even the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children agrees with this.
I find their analysis credible. If you don't, that's fine.
But that's no reason for you to be a jerk.

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27-05-2012, 01:28 AM (This post was last modified: 27-05-2012 01:32 AM by earmuffs.)
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
Hey Quidsane, why is I am finding statistics very very different to your findings!?

The 115 number does come up BUT in the form of "Only 115 of non-family abductions are stereotypical abductions, defined
as those in which a child is detained overnight, transported atleast 50
miles, held for ransom or intended to be kept permanently or killed."

Which isn't the full picture of stranger danger.
  • "800,000 children are reported missing every year.
  • Of the children reported missing, 350,000 are family abductions.
    That is, they are taken away by family members in violation of custody
    agreements.
  • Non – family abductions amount to 204,000. These include kidnappers who are acquaintances or complete strangers to the victims."
As for proof how about that for every successful abduction there is several more failed attempts. These failed attempts is some proof of the education of stranger danger working.
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27-05-2012, 05:22 AM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(27-05-2012 01:28 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Hey Quidsane, why is I am finding statistics very very different to your findings!?

Don't know, as you've failed to provide sources for your findings.
I've already provided all of mine, from NBC Nightly News video links, etc.
to several news site links, and even the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children site itself.

Your "proof" that Stranger Danger indoctrination works is... failed attempts???
Nothing gets by you, does it? Sure. Because an abduction couldn't possibly be foiled by anything
other than Stranger Danger "education". You know, like other people, vehicle malfunctions, law enforcement, etc.
Nope. Gotta be a child's superior intellect and unparalleled decision-making skills, which were learned, of course,
in a five minute crash course from their parents who, in turn, were trained by the Stranger Danger folks.
Makes perfect sense.

Speaking of a child's intellect, you should skip 59 seconds into the second video link in the OP.
NBC News is pretty much the leader in terms of journalistic integrity, but the reason I believe
that is probably because I'm a card-carrying liberal scumbag.
So when Brian Williams and Chris Jansing report facts and figures, I tend to believe them.
Don't like or don't trust these sources? Fair enough. Take it up with them.
Then take your condescending teenage demeanor somewhere else.

I provide sources up front, and you attack me without viewing/reading them.
Then you tell me to "chill the fuck out".
Then you question the integrity of my posts?
You're quite the young troll, aren't you? And a busted troll at that.
If you had read/viewed the source material, you would have known where the data came from.
Your modus operandi is so transparent as to be laughable.

Clearly, you're not here to discuss, debate, or even learn anything.
You probably don't even possess the common courtesy to feel shame
or embarrassment for being such a disrespectful jerk. Oh, well. Your loss.
Rock on, genius. Smartass

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27-05-2012, 05:44 AM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(27-05-2012 05:22 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(27-05-2012 01:28 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Hey Quidsane, why is I am finding statistics very very different to your findings!?

Don't know, as you've failed to provide sources for your findings.
I've already provided all of mine, from NBC Nightly News video links, etc.
to several news site links, and even the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children site itself.

Your "proof" that Stranger Danger indoctrination works is... failed attempts???
Nothing gets by you, does it? Sure. Because an abduction couldn't possibly be foiled by anything
other than Stranger Danger "education". You know, like other people, vehicle malfunctions, law enforcement, etc.
Nope. Gotta be a child's superior intellect and unparalleled decision-making skills, which were learned, of course,
in a five minute crash course from their parents who, in turn, were trained by the Stranger Danger folks.
Makes perfect sense.

Speaking of a child's intellect, you should skip 59 seconds into the second video link in the OP.
NBC News is pretty much the leader in terms of journalistic integrity, but the reason I believe
that is probably because I'm a card-carrying liberal scumbag.
So when Brian Williams and Chris Jansing report facts and figures, I tend to believe them.
Don't like or don't trust these sources? Fair enough. Take it up with them.
Then take your condescending teenage demeanor somewhere else.

I provide sources up front, and you attack me without viewing/reading them.
Then you tell me to "chill the fuck out".
Then you question the integrity of my posts?
You're quite the young troll, aren't you? And a busted troll at that.
If you had read/viewed the source material, you would have known where the data came from.
Your modus operandi is so transparent as to be laughable.

Clearly, you're not here to discuss, debate, or even learn anything.
You probably don't even possess the common courtesy to feel shame
or embarrassment for being such a disrespectful jerk. Oh, well. Your loss.
Rock on, genius. Smartass
what the fuck is your problem?

Like I said, drink a cup of chill the fuck out because you obviously have something shoved up your ass.


You wanna talk sources? Let us go through yours.

#1 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8331335/ns/m...o-too-far/

"115 kids a year are victims of what is viewed as classic stranger abductions."

Key word being "classic" aka, stereotypical.

and

#2 http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index.ss...ldren.html

" 258,000 child abductions each year. About 200,000 are abducted by
family members, typically in custody cases, and 58,000 by non-family
members."

"Tragically, each year about 115 children are murdered, held for ransom or taken with the intent to be kept by their captors."

58,000 by strangers or non-family members.
115 are "stereotypical"

You see, I don't need to provide sources, you've already provided them.
How about you read your own sources more clearly next time.

This:
Quote: Only 115 children are abducted by strangers every year.
Is just plain wrong.

Oh and you get shitty at people taking your words out of context, how about instead of telling people to read your posts better you take your own advice.
I believe I said "some proof".


And I'm 20 an age that cannot be considered teenage.

So how about you get your own facts and sources straight before you start questioning mine.
Smartass
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27-05-2012, 06:24 AM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(27-05-2012 05:44 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  This:
Quote: Only 115 children are abducted by strangers every year.
Is just plain wrong.

No. You're wrong.
Again: 59 seconds into video #2 in the OP. Here's the link, smartass:



In addition, you're parsing the data wrong.
58,000 are perpetrated by non-family members.
115 of those 58,000 are done by complete strangers.

Also, the scientific definition of the word stereotype is the key, genius.
Interesting reading for ya, post #189 here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid109064

Your behavior absolutely can be considered teenage, irrespective of your actual age.
But I shouldn't have expected you to know that.
The fact that you singled that out as being offensive is... well, you know.

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27-05-2012, 07:27 AM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(27-05-2012 06:24 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(27-05-2012 05:44 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  This:
Is just plain wrong.

No. You're wrong.
Again: 59 seconds into video #2 in the OP. Here's the link, smartass:



In addition, you're parsing the data wrong.
58,000 are perpetrated by non-family members.
115 of those 58,000 are done by complete strangers.

Also, the scientific definition of the word stereotype is the key, genius.
Interesting reading for ya, post #189 here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid109064

Your behavior absolutely can be considered teenage, irrespective of your actual age.
But I shouldn't have expected you to know that.
The fact that you singled that out as being offensive is... well, you know.
Wrong again. You obviously don't get it.
115 are stereotypical kidnappings, that is like I said, "A stereotypical
kidnapping occurs when a stranger or slight acquaintance transports a
child 50 miles or more from home and either kills the child, holds the
child for ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently."

Its not about the 'scientific meaning of stereotype' its about the meaning of the actual word "stereotypical kidnapping" which I have outlined above.

I don't know how much more clearer then that I can get.

Have some sources.
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/s...ageId=2810
http://www.childfindofamerica.org/information.htm
http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/kidnapping/

So lets do a quick recap of what we just learned in this post shall we.

- 58,000 kids are abducted by non-family members
- That number includes strangers as well as friends or people they know
- 115 are classed as "stereotypical kidnappings" as outlined above. (that is with the 50miles and all that)
- Hence 115 does not represent stranger abductions, just the "stereotypical" ones.
- Hence, you sir are wrong.
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27-05-2012, 12:06 PM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(26-05-2012 02:36 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(26-05-2012 01:57 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  As for the thing about people making a big deal about, yes it is a fraction of deaths or whatever compared to other things like car crashes etc.. BUT it does happen and so these things do need to be taught.
Its like say the number of people killed because of them sticking metal knives in a toaster is really low, and so they decide not to teach people not to do that. Then people don't know and that statistic will go up.
Same with stranger danger. Maybe the statistic is low because the education is getting across.

Totally missed the point.
No one "educates" (read: fills with unrealistic fear) their child about Lightning Danger.
And being struck by lightning is twice as likely to happen as a stranger abduction.
No one freaks their kids out with tales of Airplane Crash Danger, either.
And it's also more likely to happen.

What's being argued against here is the frothing-at-the-mouth paranoia/frenzy
that's refers to itself as Stranger Danger "education", which is insanely out of
proportion to the actual danger it purports to warn against.

What's not being argued against here is simply telling a child to be wary.
Uhhh... I was told by every adult ever not to go out when there's lightning, not to be in the pool when there's lightning, not to touch anything metal when there's lightning, not to be on the phone or a computer when there's lightning. I was scared to get struck by lightning and so was everyone I knew...

My stranger danger education focused on people walking up to kids and opening up their coats to reveal that they were wearing nothing else but the coat. You say "NO!" And you walk away. We were told only doctors and parents were allowed to touch certain areas and only sometimes with your permission. Stranger Danger was never half as scary as lightning, it was just "lol, do people even do that? Why? What?" You just didn't get in a stranger's car even if he has candy.

I don't know where you're talking about that teaches kids to be scared of all strangers at all times, but that's not how it was for anyone I know. Some parents were scared of strangers being near their kids, but kids themselves weren't scared unless a letchy stranger was prowling around.

I never went on an aeroplane when I was a kid, but people were always told crash statistics before they flew anywhere. If anyone knew someone was flying, soon people were hugging them like they were off to their death and saying ":'< Fly safe..." Who isn't scared of their plane crashing? And what good would it even be to teach kids about it? They can't control the plane, they're not going to buy tickets until they're older if ever.
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27-05-2012, 12:18 PM
RE: The "Stranger Danger" Myth
(26-05-2012 01:32 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(26-05-2012 01:16 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Kid's in the news, kid's probably in trouble.

I'm at a total loss.
What does that have to do with me asking itsacow how his comment relates to children?
Itsacow was referring to calves not children.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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