The TTA Theological Argument
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15-02-2013, 02:29 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
(15-02-2013 02:23 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  "since I don't know 100% if gods exist or not."

The descriptor "god" creates a testable hypothesis. We know that 100% of tests that have been done have resulted in the conclusion that gods don't exist.

How much more certainty does one need?
What tests are you talking about?

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15-02-2013, 02:38 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
Quote:The Hebrews borrowed their system from the Babylonians. It's a long story, of how we know that, and when it happened. The proof is the ELEMENTS. It contains many of the SAME elements. Now before you ask any more stupid questions, how about you actually read the damn link I gave you in the first place. Then go read "How the Bible Became A Book", and "Who Wrote the Bible", and AFTER you have done your homework, come back, and maybe we can have an intelligent discussion.

D'oh! and... Double D'oh! My dear friend, I don't know your age, just your wisdom, but I'm guessing I was studying this bird cage lining of a theory before you were born, and in a secular university. I knew what the "theory proved" and "the incredible connections" before I didn't go to the link.

There are elements of 9/11 in novels widely published and widely read before 9/11. That makes for a possible, even plausible, link between those novels and the "brainstorming" of the 9/11 terrorists but is not proof. If you brought a lawsuit against Bible publishers claiming this theory, you'd be laughed out of court for claiming circumstantial evidence as a smoking gun.

Perhaps now we can talk about the sophistication of the Bible (PJ hears sniggering from the readers of this post. Takes a deep breath. Presses on.) The biblical flood story provides, regardless if you want to argue its plausibility (this from memory):

The dimensions of the ark
Its materials used in construction
Its builders and how long they worked
The reaction of the people who scoffed at their building
The time pre-flood in the ark, in the ark, post-flood in the ark, the rubric for determining if the flood had receded
The height of the waters above the peaks of the mountains
Etc., etc., etc.

YES, there are elements common to the Bible in the Gilgamesh epic.

But...

I teach in a variety of arenas. Golf is an example. The Bible is "Pre-set your left hips, turn back three-quarters extended, cock your wrists, bring your left hip back, approach the ball from the inside, hit it in a parabola that flies 200 yards, draws left, rolls 50 yards along the ground." Gilgamesh is "Grip it and rip it."
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15-02-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
All of them. Cool

That's not to say that I'm familiar with all tests that have ever been performed but it is to say that none have collected James Randi's reward for proof of the supernatural. That Randi hasn't paid out is a pretty good indication that all scientific tests of the supernatural have demonstrated that the supernatural doesn't exist.


But again, how much certainty does one need?
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15-02-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
(15-02-2013 02:40 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  All of them. Cool

That's not to say that I'm familiar with all tests that have ever been performed but it is to say that none have collected James Randi's reward for proof of the supernatural. That Randi hasn't paid out is a pretty good indication that all scientific tests of the supernatural have demonstrated that the supernatural doesn't exist.


But again, how much certainty does one need?
Apparently all you are supposed to need is faith. Dodgy . Christianity just steals its slogan from Nike

Just believe it.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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15-02-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
(15-02-2013 02:40 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  All of them. Cool

That's not to say that I'm familiar with all tests that have ever been performed but it is to say that none have collected James Randi's reward for proof of the supernatural. That Randi hasn't paid out is a pretty good indication that all scientific tests of the supernatural have demonstrated that the supernatural doesn't exist.
I asked you what tests you are talking about because I'm not even familiar with a single one that examined a testable god hypothesis and concluded that god doesn't exist. Can you name me one?

James Randi puts it eloquently as always:

"I can't say that they [psychics] don't exist and that the powers don't exist, I never say that. I merely say: Show me."
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sesamjLNHlU

"And the fact that we haven't found any psychic powers doesn't prove that there are no psychic powers. It just seems to be an indication that there are none."
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ja6ronAWsY

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15-02-2013, 03:17 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
I honestly can't name you a specific test. I've been an atheist for a lot of years and remembering the names and dates of research I used to make the decision against mysticism aren't particularly important in relation to the facts learned.

I bet Google remembers, though.
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15-02-2013, 03:54 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
I can name a test. And I'll do better that that! I'll offer proof that God exists... to anyone who can prove to me that they exist. Ready, set... go!
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15-02-2013, 03:54 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
There is no test to disprove supernatural claims. Thats why its supernatural ._.

Arguing with a Christian is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. You can be the greatest player in the world, yet the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut away triumphantly.
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15-02-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
(15-02-2013 03:54 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I can name a test. And I'll do better that that! I'll offer proof that God exists... to anyone who can prove to me that they exist. Ready, set... go!
You'll have to tell us what you accept as proof of our existence beforehand.

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15-02-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: The TTA Theological Argument
(15-02-2013 03:17 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I honestly can't name you a specific test. I've been an atheist for a lot of years and remembering the names and dates of research I used to make the decision against mysticism aren't particularly important in relation to the facts learned.

I bet Google remembers, though.
You better start googling, then. Rolleyes

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