The Theology of God is an Asshole
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25-07-2012, 06:00 PM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
(25-07-2012 08:43 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Can someone help me out with this one?

When discussing God, a lot of Atheists say things like, he's a total prick, he kills innocents, he brings misery and suffering, he's selfish, he makes serial killers and rapists, he damns people for eternity, he causes evil. Basically, they characterise God as a an asshole.

But how can God have any characteristics or do any of these things if he doesn't exist?

If one doesn't believe that God exists, then how can one believe he has qualities?

For example, I would never say something like, "Santa is an asshole because he doesn't bring everyone gifts." He doesn't bring ANYONE gifts because he doesn't exist, so what the fuck?

Can anyone explain this one to me?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

We are commenting on the God described in the Bible. Simple as that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-07-2012, 06:13 PM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
If it were a god, like, say, Clay-Viscid-Prince, calling him shit would be accurate. How did he spawn forth? From his moms asshole. As told by the Holy Kojiki.

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25-07-2012, 07:07 PM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
Hey, Erxomai.

My opinion of God has nothing to do with this. I'm not saying anything like "God is good" or "God is an asshole". I'm trying to talk about people who do. Unfortunately, I seem to be wasting my time.

If people aren't picking up what I'm putting down, that's fine. I'm trying to wrap my head around it myself. I came looking for insight. Instead I get nonsense about Jar Jar Binks and Sauron and I get attacked personally. So whatever. The idea dies here.

It just irks me that people were saying "I don't understand what you're saying" and "you're wrong" in the same breath.

Hey, Starcrash.

I've noticed that you and I have had an inordinate number of disagreements lately. That's why I respect you so much for trying so hard to understand me here. Thank you. It means a lot to me. I think you came pretty damn close to what's on my mind.

Buddy Christ.

We've had our disagreements over the years. But whatever. Who doesn't disagree? But this shit you just pulled? Man, on any other day I would have torn you a new one. I almost did. But I'm just so disappointed in the thread and so tired of being attacked personally whenever I say something controversial. I'm just tired of it. So say what you will. I'm done with it.
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25-07-2012, 07:20 PM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
(25-07-2012 07:07 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Erxomai.

My opinion of God has nothing to do with this. I'm not saying anything like "God is good" or "God is an asshole". I'm trying to talk about people who do. Unfortunately, I seem to be wasting my time.

If people aren't picking up what I'm putting down, that's fine. I'm trying to wrap my head around it myself. I came looking for insight. Instead I get nonsense about Jar Jar Binks and Sauron and I get attacked personally. So whatever. The idea dies here.

It just irks me that people were saying "I don't understand what you're saying" and "you're wrong" in the same breath.

Hey, Starcrash.

I've noticed that you and I have had an inordinate number of disagreements lately. That's why I respect you so much for trying so hard to understand me here. Thank you. It means a lot to me. I think you came pretty damn close to what's on my mind.

Buddy Christ.

We've had our disagreements over the years. But whatever. Who doesn't disagree? But this shit you just pulled? Man, on any other day I would have torn you a new one. I almost did. But I'm just so disappointed in the thread and so tired of being attacked personally whenever I say something controversial. I'm just tired of it. So say what you will. I'm done with it.

Hey Ghost,
I can appreciate your level of frustration.

That said, you have to admit Jar Jar Binks ruined the Star Wars franchise. Smile

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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25-07-2012, 09:27 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2012 09:35 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
Look at it this way, if we didn't know who the character in the Bible was, we would still feel the same way, due to the moral judgments and the malevolent acts. We wouldn't know if this was a work of fiction or not, but it wouldn't matter. We would be judging a being on its actions. You can hate someone or something, regardless of if its real or not. Personally, I hate Scar from Lion King for killing Mufasa. Are you telling me I can't feel hate for bastard because he's animated?





(25-07-2012 07:07 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Buddy Christ.

We've had our disagreements over the years. But whatever. Who doesn't disagree? But this shit you just pulled? Man, on any other day I would have torn you a new one. I almost did. But I'm just so disappointed in the thread and so tired of being attacked personally whenever I say something controversial. I'm just tired of it. So say what you will. I'm done with it.

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26-07-2012, 06:01 AM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
Ghost,

When I look at someone's God and they're telling me God is good, God is great, God is powerful... and then I look in their holy book and find that their god is an asshole... well it says something about the person who believes. It says that they are willing to overlook that aspect of their god and compartmentalise it, or otherwise that they are outright assholes in agreeing with their god's motherfuckery.

Further, it makes their god a self-contradiction. A good god isn't an asshole, so by its self-contradiction it probably doesn't exist. That is to say, there's a straightforward argument that the god doesn't exist that now needs an answer if the conversation is to continue.

Benjamin.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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26-07-2012, 09:27 AM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
I've always felt the damage done to the planet and the human psyche came from the layers and layers heaped up on to this concept of who controls what. However, when the conversation rolls around to who actually did what, it's usually not any "God", but clearly humans who do things to each other. Indeed, who really has the power, hmm?

"God made you to love me." could very well be exchanged with, "God made you to kill me." In faithful communities, both those statements would be completely accepted - without question. The character of God would be attributed respect for the content of these statements and the real perpetrator of crimes might even be praised for acting in God's stead. They say it's God or God's rules, but really it's just another human unwilling to take responsibility for his own actions.

"Crimes" become "God's will" or part of his "plan" and so reality becomes an accomplice to the support system of this character's existence. It becomes part of the psyche - ingrained into every aspect of everyday life. Reality becomes a part of a delusion that everyone is expected to take part in.

I very, very rarely pop in on debate about "God"... I don't care about this particular character... never did; it's irrelevant. There seems to be a serious rise of conformity to accept this delusion - especially in the US. I've always pretty much stayed out of the fray... until I joined this forum. And even here, I pretty much stay out of a lot of that crap, because to me... it just doesn't matter.

It's difficult to sit on a fence... one sees the fight from a particular perspective. I see the pendulum swing. I hope that whatever nudge I can give it, will help it to swing away from the deluded, irresponsible, "God fearing" human. I also hope it won't swing too close to the apathetic, cynical, untrusting human. I need my nudge to be just right.

The way I look at it... if you don't wish to give this God any power, stop doing it. The more lip service this shit gets, the more it's gonna stick around. It's already been several thousand years... time for humans to shut the fuck up and evolve. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-07-2012, 09:37 AM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
(25-07-2012 10:02 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  However, most Christians have a theology that is handed down from parents and teachers, NOT from scripture so they believe God is Good because that is what they have been told.

I'm must not be included in this majority then.

I was raised in an extremely radical Pentecostal situation.
At my young age I didn't fully accept the idea of God, and much less the idea of a "good" God.
If anything, I wished God did exist so I could be pissed at him for my own suffering.
The longer I stayed under my parents living conditions, the more disgusted I became of what I thought was "Traditional Christianity".
I pushed away from God and Christianity as far as I could and almost let go of the whole thing.

Once I left my parents place and joined the military, I had a continuing nack for pondering questions. Big questions that involve the truth of reality.
After studying things that I would believe would make God unecessary, I eventually came to understand that it was not irrational to believe that He might actually exist.
At that time I wasn't as concerned with whether he was good or bad, big or small. I just wanted to know the truth, and settle in that.
In my own personal study of the Scriptures, I myself came to the conclusion that God is in fact good (Granted, he exists).
It's not something I really wanted to believe, it's something I realized later on.

So yeah, it's possible for Theists to come to their own conclusions without the help of mommy, daddy or a bigot preacher.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

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26-07-2012, 01:45 PM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
(26-07-2012 09:37 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  So yeah, it's possible for Theists to come to their own conclusions without the help of mommy, daddy or a bigot preacher.

But it's not just parents or teachers, it's society as a whole. Do you *really* think you would be a Christian (I am assuming that you are one, hope that's OK...) if you'd grown up in an Arabic family? If when you went looking for answers the Handy Holy Answer Book had not been the Bible but the Quran, if your whole life you hadn't interacted with people from Christianity but from some other religion...

Even now to me... even though I haven't studied the Bhagavad Gita or the Quran, the Bible with all it's fallacies is the most familiar. Those other religions, even though I know nothing of them somehow feel *more* incorrect...

And then I remember that we're talking about a man who got nailed to the furniture 2000 years ago and is apparently still alive... It's impossible to take this story seriously for me... for years I did... it's very strange...

I'm not trying to say "well, I have faith that you're stupid and that's why you believe"... this is *my* perception, from the outside, looking in. The man on the inside looking out... what does he see? He might not see himself as on the inside at all, he might see himself as the one with a window into the atheist's mind... see someone trapped in the "folly of this world"...

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26-07-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: The Theology of God is an Asshole
(26-07-2012 09:37 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(25-07-2012 10:02 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  However, most Christians have a theology that is handed down from parents and teachers, NOT from scripture so they believe God is Good because that is what they have been told.

I'm must not be included in this majority then.

I was raised in an extremely radical Pentecostal situation.
At my young age I didn't fully accept the idea of God, and much less the idea of a "good" God.
If anything, I wished God did exist so I could be pissed at him for my own suffering.
The longer I stayed under my parents living conditions, the more disgusted I became of what I thought was "Traditional Christianity".
I pushed away from God and Christianity as far as I could and almost let go of the whole thing.

Once I left my parents place and joined the military, I had a continuing nack for pondering questions. Big questions that involve the truth of reality.
After studying things that I would believe would make God unecessary, I eventually came to understand that it was not irrational to believe that He might actually exist.
At that time I wasn't as concerned with whether he was good or bad, big or small. I just wanted to know the truth, and settle in that.
In my own personal study of the Scriptures, I myself came to the conclusion that God is in fact good (Granted, he exists).
It's not something I really wanted to believe, it's something I realized later on.

So yeah, it's possible for Theists to come to their own conclusions without the help of mommy, daddy or a bigot preacher.

And just what is it that you see as good about a god who orders slaughter of thousands and thousands of men, women and children? Drowns them on purpose? Approves of selling your daughters into slavery? Approves of slavery in general? Tricks "his children" into becoming mortals by creating a snake that speaks and an apple that is sin? Blames every human born thereafter for it and curses them with the "mortal sin"? Creates the plague, cancer, tsunamis, hurricanes and what have you?

I could go on and on and on and on and on.........

Tell me, what is good about all that?

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