The Theory of Divine Technology
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27-03-2016, 10:11 AM
The Theory of Divine Technology
Before i speak, it was me making this up. No copy.

I wonder "if everything is infinite, can humans evolve their techonlogy forever ?" So, can our technology, our the techonlogy of an alien civilization evolve enough to be considered 'divine' ?
We have to see it depends. To us, phones are normal. But, to a citizen of the 10th century, a phone would be witchcraft. So, to be considered to work of God (or Demons) is to be considered capable of supernatural habilities. But this also depends on how evolved the civilization is. Lets imagine an alien civilization. A million years old one. Fheir technology would be way to advanced to us. If we did not know the unexistance of God, we would very likely consider them god like beings.
In conclusion, there is no actual divine technology, only technology to complex for a specie to understand, thereby being considered supernatural. Still, i believe there is technology capable of making some of the work God does in the bible, uncluding creating planets, destroying solar sistems, creating natural disasters and harvest giant amounts of energy. If humans can evolve the enough to master this technology, we could 'play God' to another less advanced civilization. This kind of creates a cicle, since those would also evolve and eventually play God to others.
At least, is what i think.
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27-03-2016, 10:16 AM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
You are not alone in that line of thinking. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws

Quote:Clarke's first law
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
Clarke's second law
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Clarke's third law
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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27-03-2016, 10:36 AM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2016 05:19 PM by Aliza.)
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
I'm not really following your logic. I think you're saying that since we know technology is a result of human (or sentient) scientific discovery, we can therefore demonstrate that there is no god.

But I don't see how are those two things related. To me, it's like saying apples exist, and we can point to them and demonstrate their presence in this world, so how can there possibly also be oranges?

Can you clarify your position?
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27-03-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
I think what you are trying to say is we may eventually progress to the point where we can traverse the cosmos, establish life on other planets, destroy other planets, and maybe even achieve immortality so we would take on the characteristics of a God? Or how we humans have been defining a God? I guess we could, since progress is exponential what would most likely occur is an artificial intelligence that would encompass all human knowledge would be created and then will either destroy us or abandon us, this being could perhaps be seen as a God to us mere mortals because it's more powerful than we could ever be but then it wouldn't be truly divine.

The main thing about God is he is all good and all loving and truly all powerful, can a human being or computer/robot ever be said to be this way? Also even an incredibly advanced AI couldn't be magical, could it bring someone back to life? Could it create organic life from "dust"? Could it travel through time or see the future? If it does so than I guess we can say it's truly God like but we can't confuse all powerful and all knowing with complete omnipotence where you can literally do anything which is what the human concept of God is capable of. I'm pretty sure no robot no matter how powerful would be able to create an entire universe just through will alone.

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27-03-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
I see how "the god of the gaps" has always been inserted to explain what people didn't know. If you don't know how it happens - god done it.

So then, just taking my great grand mother and putting her in my house. I wouldn't be surprised if she figured I was a witch.

She would know no appliances, zero. No flicking a switch to warm the house, no determining to the exact degree how warm (or cool) it will be.

No switching on the light!

Faucets - a miracle, water springing inside the house.

Throw laundry in a box and it comes out clean. Throw it in another box, and it's dry.

Big flat screen - bringing people into the house without having them there. Phones, computers and on and on....

Damn, it would be great fun to show her around, but I am afraid she would freak out at all this.

It hasn't been that long since none of these things existed.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-03-2016, 05:23 PM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
(27-03-2016 05:08 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I think what you are trying to say is we may eventually progress to the point where we can traverse the cosmos, establish life on other planets, destroy other planets, and maybe even achieve immortality so we would take on the characteristics of a God?

I did that last week.

It was easy. I am not gonna tell you how until the patent arrives. Wink

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27-03-2016, 06:07 PM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
Yes, magic is just a higher form of technology.

As our knowledge about the universe grows, there are fewer places for gods to hide in.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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28-03-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
(27-03-2016 10:36 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I'm not really following your logic. I think you're saying that since we know technology is a result of human (or sentient) scientific discovery, we can therefore demonstrate that there is no god.

But I don't see how are those two things related. To me, it's like saying apples exist, and we can point to them and demonstrate their presence in this world, so how can there possibly also be oranges?

Can you clarify your position?

I believe what The_Guy is attempting to get at is that God could be thought of as a sufficiently advanced alien, rather than some sort of different class of entity which inherently deserves worship. Which I would actually tend to agree with; I find the entire idea of gods to be poorly defined and functionally equivalent to the above, only with the added caveat that we should necessarily bow to them for no adequately explained reason.

Admittedly, he's getting there in a rather clumsy way, and my paraphrase may be wrong, but I think that's what he's getting at.

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28-03-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
(27-03-2016 10:11 AM)The_Guy Wrote:  Lets imagine an alien civilization. A million years old one. Their technology would be way to advanced to us. If we did not know the unexistence of God, we would very likely consider them god like beings. [...]

I tend to disagree with this. Because we (scientists) now have a deep, scientific knowledge of the way in which technological devices and/or natural processes function at an atomic level (think Hadron Collider, Hubble telescope, Mars Rover etc), I reckon we'd have sufficient powers of logic to determine that they weren't "gods" but instead, extremely advanced technologists. We also have the capacity to start from well-established scientific premises, whereas (say) the natives in a South American jungle would be surprised/fearful/awed by any common LED flashlight—a tall, strangely attired, white-skinned god appears, bearing a fire stick that he masters at will. They've not even seen a 180-year-old incandescent globe, so they have no up-to-date frame of reference (which we do).

As it is, we've already more than satisfied ourselves (atheists, that is) that supernatural entities and paranormal phenomena simply don't exist in any way, shape or form. A reversal of this frame of mind/knowledge/logic would never happen in my opinion—regardless of the advanced aliens' degree of technological expertise.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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28-03-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: The Theory of Divine Technology
(27-03-2016 10:11 AM)The_Guy Wrote:  Before i speak, it was me making this up. No copy.

I wonder "if everything is infinite, can humans evolve their techonlogy forever ?" So, can our technology, our the techonlogy of an alien civilization evolve enough to be considered 'divine' ?
We have to see it depends. To us, phones are normal. But, to a citizen of the 10th century, a phone would be witchcraft. So, to be considered to work of God (or Demons) is to be considered capable of supernatural habilities. But this also depends on how evolved the civilization is. Lets imagine an alien civilization. A million years old one. Fheir technology would be way to advanced to us. If we did not know the unexistance of God, we would very likely consider them god like beings.
In conclusion, there is no actual divine technology, only technology to complex for a specie to understand, thereby being considered supernatural. Still, i believe there is technology capable of making some of the work God does in the bible, uncluding creating planets, destroying solar sistems, creating natural disasters and harvest giant amounts of energy. If humans can evolve the enough to master this technology, we could 'play God' to another less advanced civilization. This kind of creates a cicle, since those would also evolve and eventually play God to others.
At least, is what i think.

I think I understand the main point that you're driving at (that a sufficiently advanced technological system would appear divine to one who did not understand it). I don't really feel like discussing that point at the moment, since I think others (Unbeliever, SYZ) have already clarified it, and I'm not sure what kind of difference it would make to me. It's just a redefinition of god that doesn't really change any of my opinions as to how I operate in the universe.
I am however intrigued by a couple points you brought up. First you ask, "if everything is infinite, can humans evolve their technology forever?" Somehow I'm more curious about the premise rather than the conclusion. Isn't it true that not everything is infinite? Someone who knows more about this, please enlighten me...I thought it was a reasonably well-established theory that humanity as a species is not going to last forever.
Also intriguing to me is your claim that we "know the unexistence of God". Are you claiming to be a gnostic atheist? Because if so, I feel like you are in the minority. Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like a hallmark of skepticism (which I understand is not necessary for atheism but more often than not seems to accompany it) is agnosticism.
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