The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
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01-10-2012, 06:23 PM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
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01-10-2012, 10:12 PM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
As Richard Dawkins has previously stated, Science cannot absolutely disprove the existence of a deity. We can however disprove religion. That is one of the reasons I do not argue against Deism, there is simply nothing that can be said with no way to disprove it. Theism however is very different. Theistic claims that the deity they believe in constantly interferes in our daily lives are usually ridiculous as the "miracles" which theists claim are the work of a deity are actually just occurrences within the laws of physics that govern our universe. The reason they are received as miracles is simply because the observers almost always do not understand the physics involved in the matter.

"Understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth." Kosh Naranek
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02-10-2012, 04:36 PM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
(30-09-2012 08:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  My point is that The Thinking Atheist, and most atheists on the forums here, argue against god(s) and religion like they are angry theists.

Oh really. Prove it. Generization. No proof offered. Most of the threads here don't give a rip about the subject. Most people here are WAY beyond that stage.

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  Example : prayer.

“If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” (Matthew 21:22)
Nope. Proves god is a liar. Tongue

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  Disproving any “holy books,” cannot disprove any god(s). It can only disprove the god or gods associated with that holy book.

Got any gods left ?

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  Proving scientific claims cannot disprove god(s). Only proves that science is true, because any god(s) who can create, can create within the laws of nature.

Irrelevant. The question is where did the laws of nature come from.

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  Proving theists are stupid does not disprove theism. Only proves that humans are usually stupid.

Show me one theist system that is not stupid, and show me one smart theist.

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  Proving the corruption within religious systems does not disprove god(s). It can only prove that those systems are run by corrupt people.

Show me one that isn't.

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  The list goes on…Also, The Thinking Atheist and many atheists here, use arguments that hold no philosophical or substantial meaning, or that don’t tie in with their own worldview.
Examples:
-True atheism cannot argue any moral code (evil doesn’t exist, because morals are subjective)
-On the flip side, true good/ virtue cannot exist in the atheistic, materialist/ naturalist view.

What is "true" atheism. His Holiness has not yet told us what his Holiness has deigned to declare, ex-Cathedra, what that is. A-theism is absence of theism. It makes no further assertion, and CERTAINLY morality is not dependant on gods. Also Morality and evil are not necessarily related. Evil is a construct. There is no such thing as "evil". Get with the 21st Century.

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  And in accordance with atheistic philosophers, like David Chalmers, the atheistic viewpoint cannot explain conscienceness. Darwinian explanation would explain us being more like computers .

False. It's not the job of atheism to explain consciousness, or anything else. Theism certainly does not even attempt explain it. Science is working on it.

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  If we are all truly questioning everything, and looking for the truth, then we are looking for the answers that all truly and fully explain all life’s questions.

Speak for yourself Father.

(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  Theism is filled with doubts, but so is atheism. So let us move forward, being objective, and working within a consistently atheistic worldview.

Tell me 2 doubts theists have, and 1 doubt atheists have.

Maybe your search would be more fruitful, if you dumped your unproven presuppositions at the door, and stop telling us what we do, and don't believe, before you've even met us, your Holiness.

What's with all these dogmatic refugees from Philosophy this week ?
You certainly aren't pandering to Pander.
As for those refugees from philosophy, perhaps you mean philologists......Wink
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02-10-2012, 04:45 PM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
Seems to be a lot of reactionaryism going on here. Tongue

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02-10-2012, 04:51 PM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
(02-10-2012 04:45 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Seems to be a lot of reactionaryism going on here. Tongue
'The fuck is that even supposed to be? Huh

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02-10-2012, 04:59 PM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
(02-10-2012 04:51 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 04:45 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Seems to be a lot of reactionaryism going on here. Tongue
'The fuck is that even supposed to be? Huh

Reacting emotionally to the title of the OP rather than the content. And yeah, I think I just made up that word. It's Gwynnie's fault. Big Grin

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02-10-2012, 07:15 PM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
(30-09-2012 07:43 PM)titus221_panda Wrote:  Theism is filled with doubts, but so is atheism.

Of course atheism and theism are both filled with doubts -- nothing is completely certain unless you embrace dogmatism. However, there are different amounts of doubt here. I may doubt the usefulness of aspirin and the usefulness of eating clover in removing the pain of my headache, but I don't doubt them to the same degree.

Your lack of absolute certainty drives you to make some really bad points. For instance, "true atheism cannot argue any moral code". Of course evil exists, even if morals are subjective. It's not just a coincidence that every poster to this site is offended by murder, rape, and theft -- these acts do actual harm, and harm is the ruler by which we measure whether an act is evil. It's true that we may not all agree on every act as well as we do on something like murder, but that lack of absolute certainty doesn't mean the subject is unsolvable. Slavery is considered universally evil in the US, but it wasn't always... we didn't arrive at that change through the unchanging texts of holy books.

And while we can't disprove the idea of a god or gods, we can disprove certain definitions of gods. For instance, disproving the effectiveness of prayer does disprove the existence of a God that answers prayer. But we don't have to disprove a single definition of god to be unbelievers -- skepticism is a perfectly reasonable answer to unsupported gods or gods that are supported with bad/weak evidence.

Please don't dismiss Seth or other atheists by stereotyping us as angry. Many of us arrived at our conclusions through logic rather than emotions, and I know that includes Seth and myself at the very least.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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03-10-2012, 07:22 AM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
NAKED FIRE NINJAS! Seth has deceived me..

There is no such thing as a true atheist.. see the latest Scotsmen thread. You don't need to get your head stuck in a hole to be a trust Scotsman... but it doesn't hurt the case.

Many of the points raised are simply false. An atheist can hold various believes that don't extend to your ideas. Atheists can believe there is an objective morality without a deity and some atheist philosophers have argued how consciousness/free may be more an illusion than reality.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/index.php Try to show your case on this forum if you want to argue "real" atheism or what atheists SHOULD be doing and saying in their world view.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-10-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
(03-10-2012 07:22 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  http://atheismplus.com/forums/index.php Try to show your case on this forum if you want to argue "real" atheism or what atheists SHOULD be doing and saying in their world view.

That fucking place...Dodgy

Linking that shit got me thinking I should go over there and do some chain yanking, but I read the rules...

No derailing? Trigger warnings? No assholery? And Gwynnies forbid, calling someone a retard results in a ban. What a bunch of pretentious self-important pansies. Big Grin

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03-10-2012, 08:31 AM
RE: The Thinking Atheist is Not an Atheist
(02-10-2012 07:15 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Of course atheism and theism are both filled with doubts -- nothing is completely certain unless you embrace dogmatism. However, there are different amounts of doubt here. I may doubt the usefulness of aspirin and the usefulness of eating clover in removing the pain of my headache, but I don't doubt them to the same degree.

Dis. Though I wouldn't say atheism is necessarily "filled" with doubt. Maybe a light dusting.

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