The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-03-2014, 08:32 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:06 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Thanks I appreciate you taking the time to explain!! There is a lot more to evolution than I had at first thought...

I will check out my local library too, Lord knows I'm there enough anyway so I'll definitely find time.

Excellent. Would you like a reading list?

Quote:Are there any viable refutations to evolutiuon that you know of? Just curious here, not attempting to refute it myself Smile

No. There are none. Really - none at all.

Yeah, if you have some suggestions I'll take them!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheThinkingChristian's post
27-03-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
I wonder if I should use my superpowers of invisibility for good or evil.

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WillHopp's post
27-03-2014, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2014 08:41 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:20 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:08 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  ...Really?


And precisely what is this "undeniable" experience.



Blah blah blah is right. Arguments -- such as those you read Bill Craig vomit -- are merely word salad unless they answer to evidence. Of which Bill Craig has precisely ZERO.




Wrong place to look here to feed your delusions.






Is this a TTT sock?








Then how do you justify making the preposterous claim that is hasn't been proven. Hobo

Upset much?

Not at all, and it would be a mistake for you to delude yourself into thinking so.



Quote: For experience, how about healings and miracles witnessed by me personally?

You have said nothing.



Quote: How about transcendent peace?

How about word salad Does that even mean anything?


Quote:How about speaking to God?

I can speak to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That means nothing.


Quote: But you won't accept those things, so why even ask me about it?

What makes you think I "won't accept these things"? Of course I am not gullible and credulous and I require evidence, but it is a mistake for you to assume any atheist here is in any way closed-minded. ANY one.

[video=youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI[/video]


Quote: I am learning form Dr. Craig, that's true,

I wouldn't call that "learning" by ANY stretch of the imagination..


Quote: but I'm also reading the Moral Landscape by Sam Harris, There is a God by Antony Flew, Signature in the Cell by Stephen Meyer, and I plan on reading much more. One of those is an atheist and one is a former atheist, so it's not like I'm only reading what theists put out... And Dr. Craig does have good evidence,

Not even a shred. Sophistic "arguments" and semantic Three Card Monte are NOT evidence, ever.


Quote: but it takes an objective consideration of said evidence to come to a conclusion that isn't biased.

See the above qualiasoup video on "open-mindedness. Craig's "evidence"...ISN'T.


Quote: Whether you see it as good evidence or not makes really no difference at all to me..

Then you have a problem.


Quote:But either way, I've said multiple times that I didn't come to argue, but merely to learn, so why is it that you much point by point take apart what I've said? This isn't a debate here, simply conversation.

You have made several assertions by fiat. I am gently questioning them. Several of them have already turned out to have stood on extremely shaky ground.


Quote:And I'm not trying to feed my "delusions", again, I am trying to learn. Hence me asking questions.

Um, reading Bill Craig, and especially taking the shit he says seriously, IS feeding delusions. Whether you like hearing it or not.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-03-2014, 08:38 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:20 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Upset much? For experience, how about healings and miracles witnessed by me personally? How about transcendent peace? How about speaking to God? But you won't accept those things, so why even ask me about it? I am learning form Dr. Craig, that's true, but I'm also reading the Moral Landscape by Sam Harris, There is a God by Antony Flew, Signature in the Cell by Stephen Meyer, and I plan on reading much more. One of those is an atheist and one is a former atheist, so it's not like I'm only reading what theists put out... And Dr. Craig does have good evidence, but it takes an objective consideration of said evidence to come to a conclusion that isn't biased. Whether you see it as good evidence or not makes really no difference at all to me.. But either way, I've said multiple times that I didn't come to argue, but merely to learn, so why is it that you much point by point take apart what I've said? This isn't a debate here, simply conversation.

And I'm not trying to feed my "delusions", again, I am trying to learn. Hence me asking questions.

All of your internal experiences are largely explicable by neuroscince and psychology. They have non-magical explanations.

You will get little or no value from reading Craig - he is a charlatan.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-03-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:26 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:14 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  So why were you under that impression. Spending all your time at "reasonable" Hobo -faith-dot-com?


ProTip: Contrary to the bullshit that Craig will claim, even if evolution were NOT true, that would still not make fairy tales like xtardianity true. This is called a False Dichotomy Fallacy.

No, not all my time. A rather small amount of time actually...

Anyway, I never said that one automatically proves or disproves the other.

Your hero Bill Craig claims it does. Hobo


Chas is entirely correct in his assessment of Bill Craig. His opinions and writings are FOR WORSE than worthless.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-03-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:16 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Dutch is not a language.

It is a throat infection!

Drinking Beverage
This lovely lady does not have a throat infection.

Angels - Within Temptation

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7Qahdqrytvm1MTW7qtv4...mCaWUU_p5g]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-03-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:22 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  You don't know aboyut Dawkins or 'the whole selfish gene thing' because you've probably never read it.
Or any of his books.
Or any other book on evolution by an evolutionary biologist.

Well, I am assuming that the little bite that came on that comment is because you were trying to insult me... Great job...

Anyway, you are correct. I haven't read those books. I only know what I've heard form other sources. So, that is why I said that I couldn't make an accurate judgement regarding his work.

No, I was not trying to insult you - please don't play the aggrieved Christian card.

I was pointing out that commenting on things that you don't actually know anything about is a bad idea. Your opinions on them are worthless.

It was obvious from your comments that you had not read any books on evolution except possibly ones from other people who don't understand evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-03-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 07:39 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Christian,

First, I would be terribly disappointed if you turned out to be just another troll and there are some things that you've said that have me wondering, but I'll reserve judgement until at least Day 2, but I'm hopeful you're not one. Big Grin

Second, your words don't seem to ring true with me, and here's why: You mention not seeing all of the evidence for evolution as a reason not to believe and you question theories. When someone asked what theories you question such as gravity and plate tectonics, you casually mentioned that you can see things falling and earthquakes as why you believe those theories.

But here's the rub: You've never seen the actual plates shifting that cause the mountains to shoot...[SNIP]... except our evidence is peer-reviewed) and this doesn't have to threaten your belief in any god (we can do that with so many other things). Big Grin

Nope, no trolling here! I am interested in finding out what things I said that seemed trollish though... lol

The first time I wrote this it was longer, but I'm gonna try to shorten it up this time around.

You are right. I haven't witnessed the plates shift nor gravity itself, but I have personally witnessed the effects of these things which makes it rather silly to for me to say they aren't proven. Whether they are still called theories or not, I know first hand that these things happen. And I know that it was science that first taught that gravity is the reason things fall and plates shifting are the reason we have earthquakes and that it isn't zeus belching beneath the earth lol. The only difference is that I haven't personally and knowingly witness the process of evolution. Now, whether I have just been oblivious is another matter altogether!! lol

I am not resistant to truly learning or accepting evolution, after all you can accept something without 100% certainty. I accept that I could be hit by a drunk driver, but that doesn't mean I'm certain of it, ya know? And yes I know that the two don't equally correlate, but it's just an example..

And like I've said, I believed in God before I believed in the Bible, although now I believe in both, and so I don't think that I have accepted those things because they "fit" into my paradigm, but simply that they are true and acceptable. Evolution is acceptable as well, I just was unaware that anyone had proven it to be true. Neither did I know that "theory" in science equates to "fact".

And yes, I got the Dr. part of Dr. Tyson. My mistake. I'm not disagreeing with them, I'm simply saying that I choose to withhold 100% certainty until such time as I am able to review all of the evidence out there, you see?

And I came to this website because I recognize that the majority of atheists, unlike most theists (though more are emerging everyday that actually care) are truly interested and passionate about these subjects and so I thought that you all would have some much desired information Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-03-2014, 08:46 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:27 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  No and no.

You do not understand basic evolutionary theory.

What do you think I am trying to learn here man? That's what I'm asking about!

You will note that that comment is not directed at you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
27-03-2014, 08:46 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:40 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:26 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  No, not all my time. A rather small amount of time actually...

Anyway, I never said that one automatically proves or disproves the other.

Your hero Bill Craig claims it does. Hobo


Chas is entirely correct in his assessment of Bill Craig. His opinions and writings are FOR WORSE than worthless.

Well, he's not my hero... and I don't know where he says that since he is both a Christian and a someone who agrees with evolutionary theory...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: