The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
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27-03-2014, 09:10 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
TTChristian, just a word of advice, bringing up Craig around here is going to get a lot of heat. He has been refuted many times over and very thoroughly at that. He is not well liked 'round these here parts.

On another topic, you mentioned that you had personally experienced healings. I'd be interested in hearing more about that.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-03-2014, 09:32 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 09:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  TTChristian, just a word of advice, bringing up Craig around here is going to get a lot of heat. He has been refuted many times over and very thoroughly at that. He is not well liked 'round these here parts.

On another topic, you mentioned that you had personally experienced healings. I'd be interested in hearing more about that.

And "miracles". Tits or GTFO.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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27-03-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:20 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Alright lets continue. Next is something called convergent evolution. This is when animals of two different groups evolve similar patterns due to their environment being the same, or because they both coincidentally used the same shape in a certain body part. Mososaurs and Cetaceans both have a convergent evolution. Both of these animals are tetrapods(includes amphibians and amniotes). During there evolution both of these animals where able to first adapt to their marine environment and then evolve to suit it. Over the years eventually both of these animals where able to become marine super animals.

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/typesofdin...asaurs.htm

http://www.talkorigins.org/features/whales/

They are both tetrapods because they have a common ancestor which was a tetrapod. That is not convergent evolution.

I was talking about how one is a reptile and the other is a mammal. Bothare tetrapod yes, but they are in different classes, meaning they are only distantly related. No different then the bills of a platypus and a duck. Both are tetrapods but they are in different classes in fact one comes from synapsid and the other is is in daiapsid.

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27-03-2014, 09:48 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2014 09:52 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:56 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:38 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Not at all, and it would be a mistake for you to delude yourself into thinking so.




You have said nothing.




How about word salad Does that even mean anything?



I can speak to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That means nothing.



What makes you think I "won't accept these things"? Of course I am not gullible and credulous and I require evidence, but it is a mistake for you to assume any atheist here is in any way closed-minded. ANY one.

[video=youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI[/video]



I wouldn't call that "learning" by ANY stretch of the imagination..



Not even a shred. Sophistic "arguments" and semantic Three Card Monte are NOT evidence, ever.



See the above qualiasoup video on "open-mindedness. Craig's "evidence"...ISN'T.



Then you have a problem.



You have made several assertions by fiat. I am gently questioning them. Several of them have already turned out to have stood on extremely shaky ground.



Um, reading Bill Craig, and especially taking the shit he says seriously, IS feeding delusions. Whether you like hearing it or not.

You do get the "personal" in personal experience right?

Absolutely. And at least you are honest enough to admit and understand that your personal experiences are not credible evidence. However, there are many explanations for personal experience besides "Gawddidit". See the "open-mindedness" video I linked to. You might have experienced event X, but that does not mean that your conclusion "Gawddidit" is a valid explanation. You claim that X events -- "healings" and "miracles" -- are sufficient evidence to justify your belief. We here at TTA are happy to help you objectively evaluate your own assessment of the events you say you experienced.


Quote: Maybe you can talk to the famed flying spaghetti monster, I wouldn't know.. I'm not you.

I can talk to my coffee cup, too. That doesn't mean either talks back. Are you claiming that your deity talks back to you?

Quote:This further makes my point that there is no purpose in asking me about things that you can never see.

If you claim that you can hear your deity talk to you, then yes, that is something that I could conceivably experience as well, if I were in the room with you when it happened, or if you were to go on the Oprah show and cause it to speak to you in front of the cameras. If you claim that it talks back to you and only you can hear it in your head, then there are alternate explanations that we can explore. If you only talk and it doesn't talk back, then you are in the same boat with me and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Careful, though, that Noodly Appendage tickles.


Quote:I never said that any one here was closed minded...

Good. But the qualiasoup video is a good starting point for self-assessment nonetheless.

Quote:Really though, I don't care what you think of Dr. Craig's arguments.

Actually you do, or you wouldn't respond to my assessments of him. If not, you should, because I am giving you excellent advice when I tell you to stay the fuck away from the shit he spouts.


Quote: Why is that so important to you?

You mentioned him by name as a source of the "information" you are getting. You said you came here to ask questions and learn. I am offering the benefit of my knowledge, experience and understanding WRT Craig's tactics. Others here are, too.


Quote:You have given no evidence that his arguments are false. All you've done is provide your own opinions.

In this thread, yes. I can, if you like. Or you could poke around here and see what I and others have already pointed out about his "arguments".

Quote:Assertions do not equal invitations for argumentation or debate.

Bald assertions don't go unexamined and unchallenged around these parts.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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27-03-2014, 09:50 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 09:32 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  And "miracles". Tits or GTFO.

Dude, Taq. He is a christian, so yes you can generalize some shit, but he has come here to seek our point of view and has thus far been honest, polite, and rather humble about what he believes.

It's only fair to return the courtesy until he proves that he is otherwise. If you don't run him off right away, there is plenty of time for discussion about the merits of what his experiences have been. Please lower the tone a notch.....or five.

I'm asking please, with sugar on top.

edit: that last post was wonderful, thank you. Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-03-2014, 09:54 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 09:34 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  They are both tetrapods because they have a common ancestor which was a tetrapod. That is not convergent evolution.

I was talking about how one is a reptile and the other is a mammal. Bothare tetrapod yes, but they are in different classes, meaning they are only distantly related. No different then the bills of a platypus and a duck. Both are tetrapods but they are in different classes in fact one comes from synapsid and the other is is in daiapsid.

And the synapsids and the diapsids have a common ancestor which was a tetrapod.

This is speciation, not convergent evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-03-2014, 09:55 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2014 10:05 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 09:50 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 09:32 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  And "miracles". Tits or GTFO.

Dude, Taq. He is a christian, so yes you can generalize some shit, but he has come here to seek our point of view and has thus far been honest, polite, and rather humble about what he believes.

It's only fair to return the courtesy until he proves that he is otherwise. If you don't run him off right away, there is plenty of time for discussion about the merits of what his experiences have been. Please lower the tone a notch.....or five.

I'm asking please, with sugar on top.

edit: that last post was wonderful, thank you. Thumbsup

LOL -- I *am* playing nice, EH. And I agree with your assessment. But I guess my bad for not adding a Tongue to "Tits or GTFO".


EDIT for clarity, in case anyone reading doesn't konw: "Tits or GTFO" is fairly well-known internet slang for "show me", or "substantiate your claim". It comes from Rule 16, which states that "There are no girls on teh interwebz", and is a challenge to substantiate one's claimed grrrlhood.

Of course, we here at TTA know that there ARE actually girls AND HOT WYMYNFOLKZ on teh interwebz, and need only point to the SBT here to prove it. Tongue

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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27-03-2014, 10:58 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2014 11:09 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
Just in case nobody posted this yet...

Even if we had a two new mountains of evidence tomorrow that contradicted evolution (which itself already has a mountain of evidence), Creationism would still be wrong.

This series examines the foundational falsehoods of creationsim (hence the name). It's 17 parts and almost two hours long.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...53A6F002CC




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27-03-2014, 11:04 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 06:01 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Evolution is unproven.

Evolution is not "unproven. There is not one major academic center in the entire world that doubts it's validity. It's observed in action 24 hours a day, in every medical center in the entire world. If someone taught you it's "unproven" they are a compete idiot.
If you understand Genetics and DNA, you cannot deny Evolution. There is no more useful scientific theory in use today.



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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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27-03-2014, 11:11 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 06:03 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  I believe in the Bible and what it says. I like science and philosophy and law.

I find it amusing that you claim to believe that parents should kill their disobedient children.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Praise Jebus. Bowing

I get it. This thread is an April Fools Prank. No ?

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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