The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-03-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 09:48 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:56 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  You do get the "personal" in personal experience right?

Absolutely. And at least you are honest enough to admit and understand that your personal experiences are not credible evidence. However, there are many explanations for personal experience besides "Gawddidit". See the "open-mindedness" video I linked to. You might have experienced event X, but that does not mean that your conclusion "Gawddidit" is a valid explanation. You claim that X events -- "healings" and "miracles" -- are sufficient evidence to justify your belief. We here at TTA are happy to help you objectively evaluate your own assessment of the events you say you experienced.


Quote: Maybe you can talk to the famed flying spaghetti monster, I wouldn't know.. I'm not you.

I can talk to my coffee cup, too. That doesn't mean either talks back. Are you claiming that your deity talks back to you?

Quote:This further makes my point that there is no purpose in asking me about things that you can never see.

If you claim that you can hear your deity talk to you, then yes, that is something that I could conceivably experience as well, if I were in the room with you when it happened, or if you were to go on the Oprah show and cause it to speak to you in front of the cameras. If you claim that it talks back to you and only you can hear it in your head, then there are alternate explanations that we can explore. If you only talk and it doesn't talk back, then you are in the same boat with me and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Careful, though, that Noodly Appendage tickles.


Quote:I never said that any one here was closed minded...

Good. But the qualiasoup video is a good starting point for self-assessment nonetheless.

Quote:Really though, I don't care what you think of Dr. Craig's arguments.

Actually you do, or you wouldn't respond to my assessments of him. If not, you should, because I am giving you excellent advice when I tell you to stay the fuck away from the shit he spouts.


Quote: Why is that so important to you?

You mentioned him by name as a source of the "information" you are getting. You said you came here to ask questions and learn. I am offering the benefit of my knowledge, experience and understanding WRT Craig's tactics. Others here are, too.


Quote:You have given no evidence that his arguments are false. All you've done is provide your own opinions.

In this thread, yes. I can, if you like. Or you could poke around here and see what I and others have already pointed out about his "arguments".

Quote:Assertions do not equal invitations for argumentation or debate.

Bald assertions don't go unexamined and unchallenged around these parts.

What? My coffee cup talks to me... :-) just kidding...

Anyway, it may sound silly to you, and yes I know that there are other explanations for defining people who say they hear voices lol... But no, I don't hear voices because I'm not even sure God has a voice... God is a Spirit and so isn't physical. In stillness and meditation, and even when I'm moving around and doing stuff, I can hear the voice of God, but that isn't the same as hearing your voice.

It's more like just suddenly knowing information that you hadn't previously known. Like when I am talking to someone and I am communing with God I will get knowledge about them or something that they have done and are hiding and it's always given to help whoever I am talking to at the time... I don't know if that makes sense, but it does to me...

And so you woudln't be able to hear an audible voice, not that I'm ruling that out, but I haven't before although many, many others have claimed to, and it requires accepting the possibility of a God and then seeking to commune with said God.

Maybe this will be weird but I also believe in demons and satan and magic and voodoo and whatever else, because I believe that there is a spiritual realm that makes these things possible...

But in any case, those things aside, noodly appendages do tickle... haha!

And I suppose you're right, if I didn't care atleast a little then I wouldn't responde to what you've said of Craig. But truthfully I haven't seen the refutations and such that I've heard about here. I'm willing to check out the arguments against him though.

And so I'll look around and see about what the people here have said of his arguments.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 11:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:03 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  I believe in the Bible and what it says. I like science and philosophy and law.

I find it amusing that you claim to believe that parents should kill their disobedient children.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Praise Jebus. Bowing

I get it. This thread is an April Fools Prank. No ?

Yes, it's an april fools prank in march... No lol.

And I didn't say that disobedient children should be killed... I'm not a Jew man.... And I wasn't alive before Jesus.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(28-03-2014 05:34 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 09:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  TTChristian, just a word of advice...[SNIP]... personally experienced healings. I'd be interested in hearing more about that.

Yeah I figured that Craig wouldn't be too well liked around here, but so far I haven't seen any valid refutations of his arguments... Not saying there aren't any. I just haven't really been trying to find them I suppose....

The only things I have read regarding Craig, against him I mean, are most generally just opinions, and angry ones at that. I know there is a website, I can't remember exactly what it is, that does a pretty thorough and systematic breakdown of his arguments and attempts to refute them, but I haven't had the time to really go in depth there. There is so much to read and learn that I put it on the backburner. I am currently reading 3 books, "There is a God" by Antony Flew, "The Signature in the Cell" by Stephen Meyer and "The Moral Landscape" by Sam Harris and those have pretty much taken up a lot of time recently with my already busy schedule.

Anyway, as for the healings I've seen some pretty cool stuff. I haven't seen the dead raised yet lol. My grandmother was healed of hep c which her doctor had said that they were not going to be able to cure her of after about a week of prayer. My wife was healed of some kind of weird skin disease after 5 days of prayer. The doctor didn't know what it was and we had no insurance or really any extra money and so we just relied on God fully and He came through, but it was months before we realized that it was a permanent thing and began praying, then 5 days later it was totally gone. It hasn't returned since.

Beyond those is mostly little stuff like colds, headaches and the like. In truth, I do not get sick and so haven't had much occasion to be healed myself. Not that I've never been sick, but I haven't been sick since I realized that this sort of thing actually works Smile. And it does, atleast as far as what I've seen. I've been studying healing and miracles for a while as well, and have heard some wondrous stories Smile. I honestly don't know how I could ever not believe in the supernatural, especially with the vast majority of the world reporting some sort of supernatural occurance like NDE's, OBE's, ghosts (eh... lol), prophetic dreams, and the list goes on... I know that most of them don't necessarily help the Christian cause, but I know that this isn't all there is, ya know?

Anyway, I'm done rambling now lol...

Ah. Okay. So no miracles, just some maladies that got better and you happened to be praying about it. You do realise that those types of things get better all the time for people who don't pray? And that for many people who do pray, they don't get better?

Why does god choose to bless you and your family but neglects so many other of his good and faithful followers? It's interesting to think about isn't it?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like evenheathen's post
28-03-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(28-03-2014 05:49 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 11:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I find it amusing that you claim to believe that parents should kill their disobedient children.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Praise Jebus. Bowing

I get it. This thread is an April Fools Prank. No ?

Yes, it's an april fools prank in march... No lol.

And I didn't say that disobedient children should be killed... I'm not a Jew man.... And I wasn't alive before Jesus.

If you don't follow the old testement you weren't a israelite in other word you would go to hell. The israelites will forever be gods chosen people in christianity, or atleast that is the way I was raised.Drinking Beverage

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] ♪僕は恐怖の一定した状態に住んで、不幸、逃すもう?僕は、それはもう痛いときも気づかないと
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(28-03-2014 09:43 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:50 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Is that a card? I wish I'd known...

You'll note that I mentioned from the get go that I could not make an accurate judgment of his works. What purpose does it serve then to tell me that which I have already admitted?

What you actually said in Post #15 was:
"And I don't know about Dawkins, with the whole selfish gene thing... Not that I know a ton about his works. Just a little so I coudln't make a good judgement there."

You know nothing of his works because you haven't read any of his works. Don't you think that was an important point to mentioned?

I do know something of his works, what I've heard and read in others works. That may not be a lot, but it can't be called nothing.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(28-03-2014 10:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I think my Troll Radar might be busted got it's not going off with TTC Consider

Big GrinSmileSmartassCoolShy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 06:02 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2014 06:12 PM by TheThinkingChristian.)
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(28-03-2014 05:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(28-03-2014 05:34 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Yeah I figured that Craig wouldn't be too well liked around here, but so far I haven't seen any valid refutations of his arguments... Not saying there aren't any. I just haven't really been trying to find them I suppose....

The only things I have read regarding Craig, against him I mean, are most generally just opinions, and angry ones at that. I know there is a website, I can't remember exactly what it is, that does a pretty thorough and systematic breakdown of his arguments and attempts to refute them, but I haven't had the time to really go in depth there. There is so much to read and learn that I put it on the backburner. I am currently reading 3 books, "There is a God" by Antony Flew, "The Signature in the Cell" by Stephen Meyer and "The Moral Landscape" by Sam Harris and those have pretty much taken up a lot of time recently with my already busy schedule.

Anyway, as for the healings I've seen some pretty cool stuff. I haven't seen the dead raised yet lol. My grandmother was healed of hep c which her doctor had said that they were not going to be able to cure her of after about a week of prayer. My wife was healed of some kind of weird skin disease after 5 days of prayer. The doctor didn't know what it was and we had no insurance or really any extra money and so we just relied on God fully and He came through, but it was months before we realized that it was a permanent thing and began praying, then 5 days later it was totally gone. It hasn't returned since.

Beyond those is mostly little stuff like colds, headaches and the like. In truth, I do not get sick and so haven't had much occasion to be healed myself. Not that I've never been sick, but I haven't been sick since I realized that this sort of thing actually works Smile. And it does, atleast as far as what I've seen. I've been studying healing and miracles for a while as well, and have heard some wondrous stories Smile. I honestly don't know how I could ever not believe in the supernatural, especially with the vast majority of the world reporting some sort of supernatural occurance like NDE's, OBE's, ghosts (eh... lol), prophetic dreams, and the list goes on... I know that most of them don't necessarily help the Christian cause, but I know that this isn't all there is, ya know?

Anyway, I'm done rambling now lol...

Ah. Okay. So no miracles, just some maladies that got better and you happened to be praying about it. You do realise that those types of things get better all the time for people who don't pray? And that for many people who do pray, they don't get better?

Why does god choose to bless you and your family but neglects so many other of his good and faithful followers? It's interesting to think about isn't it?

Well I suppose I could mention words of knowledge, speaking in tongues, knowing a thing before it happens, not that all of these happen everyday. But each of them have happened to me since I became a Christian in 2012.

I know that both Christians and non get better, and I think modern medicine is a marvel for sure Smile, but it's not as though God is favoring me... He isn't a respecter of persons. It is simply a matter of faith and doubt. He says not to ask for anything if you doubt that you'll get it, even if it's the smallest grain of doubt, because without faith it is impossible to please God. I tried when in doubt, and it doesn't work. When in faith though and not doubting God at all, the things above happen. I hesitate to use the word feelings because it seems sort of taboo outside of the church lol, but feelings of transendent peace and love are there too. For one week late last year it was as if I was living in another world. Where normally I get worried and upset, I was unphased by anyone or anything and I felt the utmost love for every person I came into contact with. I prayed for people and their pain went away, it was beautiful! But then I started doubting that it was real, and it went away. Anyway, I can't say I've walked on water or raised the dead, but anything is possible :-)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 06:02 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
Facepalm

/thread

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 06:11 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
If you don't follow the old testement you weren't a israelite in other word you would go to hell. The israelites will forever be gods chosen people in christianity, or atleast that is the way I was raised.Drinking Beverage
[/quote]

nu-uh... lol

There is no separation between the Jew and the Gentile any longer. And we are told many times in the NT that the OT law was for that time until Jesus would come, and it was only for the Jews. NT believers are not to follow the OT law. Here is one such example regarding being told not to follow the OT law:

Mark 2:21 - 21 No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; or else the new piece pulls away from the old, and the tear is made worse. 22 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine bursts the wineskins, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins.”


And the verses below speak of the fact that there is no longer any difference to God between the Jews and Gentiles. We are all one group to God, no separation.


Ephesians 2: 11-18

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-03-2014, 06:14 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(28-03-2014 05:52 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  If you don't follow the old testement you weren't a israelite in other word you would go to hell. The israelites will forever be gods chosen people in christianity, or atleast that is the way I was raised.Drinking Beverage

nu-uh... lol

There is no separation between the Jew and the Gentile any longer. And we are told many times in the NT that the OT law was for that time until Jesus would come, and it was only for the Jews. NT believers are not to follow the OT law. Here is one such example regarding being told not to follow the OT law:

Mark 2:21 - 21 No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; or else the new piece pulls away from the old, and the tear is made worse. 22 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine bursts the wineskins, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins.”


And the verses below speak of the fact that there is no longer any difference to God between the Jews and Gentiles. We are all one group to God, no separation.


Ephesians 2: 11-18

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: