The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
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27-03-2014, 08:08 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 07:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:04 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Evolution is the best model of biodiversity that we have. You see evolution every time you see a change in the population. There are two levels of evolution micro and macro. Micro is within a population 9(i.e dogs) macro is when a large genetic change happens (i.e speciation)

No, that is completely incorrect.

There is no 'macro' evolution is the sense you are saying

The only difference between 'micro' and 'macro' evolution is time. 'Macro' evolution is the accumulation of 'micro' evolution.

Speciation is only observable in retrospect, and it is most certainly not a large genetic change all at once. There isn't really a point in time that one can point to and say "Aha! It's a new species!".

Very interesting! Macro is pretty much a bunch of micro over time then...
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27-03-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:01 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Evolution is unproven.

What, because YOU said so? Fallacious Appeal to Ignorance and Personal Incredulity much?

Yes.. That's why.

No! I was under the impression that it was unproven! I didn't know that there was so much evidence for it! While I won't say I am 100% certain I will say that it is highly likely Smile
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27-03-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:01 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  What, because YOU said so? Fallacious Appeal to Ignorance and Personal Incredulity much?

I addressed this in my post in a little softer fashion, but no reaction yet. I may have struck a nerve.

I did reply to you...
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27-03-2014, 08:11 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2014 08:32 PM by Chas.)
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 06:13 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:07 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  I highly recommend The Greatest Show On Earth: The Evidence For Evolution by Richard Dawkins.

Where can that be found to watch?

And I don't know about Dawkins, with the whole selfish gene thing... Not that I know a ton about his works. Just a little so I coudln't make a good judgement there.

I am watching the videos on the Khan Academy app about evolution though lol

You don't know about Dawkins or 'the whole selfish gene thing' because you've probably never read it.
Or any of his books.
Or any other book on evolution by an evolutionary biologist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-03-2014, 08:12 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:08 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:06 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Thanks I appreciate you taking the time to explain!! There is a lot more to evolution than I had at first thought...

I will check out my local library too, Lord knows I'm there enough anyway so I'll definitely find time.

Are there any viable refutations to evolutiuon that you know of? Just curious here, not attempting to refute it myself Smile
Of course not, to refute means to prove something untrue. How could there be? Laughat

Just wondering... Ya know? No harm in learning all I can, right?
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27-03-2014, 08:12 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 06:17 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:14 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Christian, if you have some spare time check out this talk. He gives excellent evidence for evolution. You will hear some great info. Also, he's a devout Catholic, so you know where his heart is. He's a funny dude too, he keeps the lecture interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

Cool I'll look into it Smile Thanks!

Videos may be helpful, but you need to read some books.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-03-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:10 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:01 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I addressed this in my post in a little softer fashion, but no reaction yet. I may have struck a nerve.

I did reply to you...

Actually, I don't see where you replied to Post #55, can you point it out to me? Sorry if I missed it.

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27-03-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 08:10 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 08:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  What, because YOU said so? Fallacious Appeal to Ignorance and Personal Incredulity much?

Yes.. That's why.

No! I was under the impression that it was unproven! I didn't know that there was so much evidence for it! While I won't say I am 100% certain I will say that it is highly likely Smile

So why were you under that impression. Spending all your time at "reasonable" Hobo -faith-dot-com?


ProTip: Contrary to the bullshit that Craig will claim, even if evolution were NOT true, that would still not make fairy tales like xtardianity true. This is called a False Dichotomy Fallacy.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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27-03-2014, 08:15 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 06:20 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:14 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Oh okay lol sorry bout that!

Alright lets continue. Next is something called convergent evolution. This is when animals of two different groups evolve similar patterns due to their environment being the same, or because they both coincidentally used the same shape in a certain body part. Mososaurs and Cetaceans both have a convergent evolution. Both of these animals are tetrapods(includes amphibians and amniotes). During there evolution both of these animals where able to first adapt to their marine environment and then evolve to suit it. Over the years eventually both of these animals where able to become marine super animals.

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/typesofdin...asaurs.htm

http://www.talkorigins.org/features/whales/

They are both tetrapods because they have a common ancestor which was a tetrapod. That is not convergent evolution.

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27-03-2014, 08:15 PM
RE: The Thinking Christian on COSMOS and evolution
(27-03-2014 06:22 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(27-03-2014 06:16 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Yeah I mean that I though that micro and adaptation were pretty much the same thing. So what do you mean by micro I.E. dogs? When dogs interbreed?

What is micro exactly if not the adaptation to environment and such within a species?

Micro is changes in a population of the same species. Dogs are micro because despite all the changes they are still Canis lupus familiaris. Macro as I said before is speciation. SO when you see ring species that is macro evolution.

No and no.

You do not understand basic evolutionary theory.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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