The Thread Formerly Known As Knocking Dawkins
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23-08-2012, 08:23 PM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
(23-08-2012 04:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Not so well, But the audience was biased, and the use of the moderator, who kept bailing out the cardinal, was really unfair, and not helpful.

I don't find that the moderator was bailing him out at all. He posed very difficult questions that the cardinal had a lot of trouble answering. Especially with the question about the suffering of the Jewish people, I think if anything, it was to save time from his rambling.

I didn't find the audience too incredibly biased. Each one got an applause when they said something witty or true. Overall, it was a relatively balanced audience.

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23-08-2012, 08:25 PM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
(23-08-2012 08:17 PM)Ghost Wrote:  His understandings are juvenile and simplistic. Half the time he doesn't even understand how his own revelations impact the study of cultures. As a social scientist, I look at his work and facepalm because it's painfully bad; embarrassingly bad. In all truth, he's a dilettante. Add onto that that when he talks about religion, he's a penis. Straight up. We've all seen him. He's just a penis. So he deserves the ire that he draws.

That is one of the most logical, intelligent, and insightful penises I have ever seen.

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23-08-2012, 08:32 PM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
(23-08-2012 08:17 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Bucky.
Are you looking for "passive aggressive"?

That is it, isn't it ? But it needs an additional "obnoxious" twist - element.
Like "suburban bag/boss from hell/patronising bitch/looks down her fucking nose" .. or something ??
She's like nails on a chalk board, to me.

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23-08-2012, 08:36 PM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2012 09:05 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Knocking Dawkins
(23-08-2012 08:23 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 04:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Not so well, But the audience was biased, and the use of the moderator, who kept bailing out the cardinal, was really unfair, and not helpful.

I don't find that the moderator was bailing him out at all. He posed very difficult questions that the cardinal had a lot of trouble answering. Especially with the question about the suffering of the Jewish people, I think if anything, it was to save time from his rambling.

I didn't find the audience too incredibly biased. Each one got an applause when they said something witty or true. Overall, it was a relatively balanced audience.

I think the mod kept interrupting when he saw Pell was rambling, so as to help him not look foolish, ("fellow Aussie" thingy). I was not alone in that. Krauss was in the audience, I think, and complained about it later, publically, saying he would never enter a debate with that sort of moderation. I am very biased though. I think Pell is a fool.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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23-08-2012, 08:39 PM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
(23-08-2012 08:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 08:23 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I don't find that the moderator was bailing him out at all. He posed very difficult questions that the cardinal had a lot of trouble answering. Especially with the question about the suffering of the Jewish people, I think if anything, it was to save time from his rambling.

I didn't find the audience too incredibly biased. Each one got an applause when they said something witty or true. Overall, it was a relatively balanced audience.

I think the mod kept interrupting when he saw Pell was rambling, so as to help him not look foolish. I was not alone in that. Krauss was in the audience, I think, and complained about it later, publically, saying he would never enter a debate with that sort of moderation. I am very biased though. I think Pell is a fool.

I am biased against him as well, but I think the moderator intervened when the cardinal was rambling in order to save time.

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23-08-2012, 11:25 PM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
I loved Dawkins' books. The Selfish Gene was what made him the famous biologist he is today, and it is one of the most brilliant things ever written. The God Delusion introduced me to many atheist arguments because I hadn't heard any (fuck, I'd never even met an atheist before reading that), and so I think it's useful for new atheists. And The Greatest Show on Earth put forth arguments against creationism that I'd never heard before, including a very clever analogy for the God of the Gaps argument (the videos catching the butler on his way to commit murder).

The man himself has become an ideologue, though. There was a time when he could concede points to theists on a rational basis, but now he catches too much fire for doing it and so he won't. I used to visit his site regularly to play the devil's advocate for theists (much like I do here) but I got tired of it, especially on the rare occasions when I argued with or corrected Dawkins himself.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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24-08-2012, 04:50 PM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
(23-08-2012 08:17 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Red.

Richard Dawkins is one of the single most important evolutionary biologists of all time. His brilliance and insight is stunning. His work on the meme centred view is unparalleled. The spark of genius that led him to Universal Darwinism and by extension, to memetics, is breathtaking. When it comes to evolution and biology, very few people on the planet can hold a candle to him and even fewer can take anything away from him. The Selfish Gene is currently not four feet from me and Dawkins' work forms the basis of my own work with Darwinism and with memetics.

But when it comes to social science, he shouldn't quit his day job.

His understandings are juvenile and simplistic. Half the time he doesn't even understand how his own revelations impact the study of cultures. As a social scientist, I look at his work and facepalm because it's painfully bad; embarrassingly bad. In all truth, he's a dilettante. Add onto that that when he talks about religion, he's a penis. Straight up. We've all seen him. He's just a penis. So he deserves the ire that he draws.

I find it important to separate the two things. I can watch his documentary "The Root of All Evil" and want to cut out my eyes Oedipus style and then pick up the Selfish Gene and marvel at it's genius.

I think he's finally turned a corner. He's writing books for teens introducing them to science. It puts him back in his element and makes it almost impossible for him to be a penis. I think it's a good direction for him.

Hey, Bucky.

Are you looking for "passive aggressive"?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

I find your use of the word penis strange.

Are you suggesting that despite his brilliant and specific academic background he has become a bit of a prick, unjustifiably reified by the non believing masses?

This seems a bit harsh given that the polymaths are now redundant.

Could Skinner and his behaviourism have been a penis too, had his utopian plans for mankind taken on?
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25-08-2012, 10:16 AM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
Hey, Woof.

Odd. I thought it was pretty clear. He's great at biology and shit at social science. His academic skill is restricted to biology. He talks out of his ass when he discusses social science. Any serious social scientist looks at his ideas and laughs. It's like he writes his books in crayon.

He's an asshole to people. Another body part, I know, but pretty evocative no? Cool

You know, I don't actually know a thing about Skinner's public activity, I only know him for his theories... Which are brilliant and widely accepted; unlike Dakwins' ideas. I would be shocked, utterly shocked, if an undergraduate program taught "The God Delusion" but not at all shocked if one taight "The Selfish Gene". One is a staggering work of genius, the other is poo.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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25-08-2012, 12:27 PM
RE: Knocking Dawkins
(25-08-2012 10:16 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Woof.

Odd. I thought it was pretty clear. He's great at biology and shit at social science. His academic skill is restricted to biology. He talks out of his ass when he discusses social science. Any serious social scientist looks at his ideas and laughs. It's like he writes his books in crayon.

He's an asshole to people. Another body part, I know, but pretty evocative no? Cool

You know, I don't actually know a thing about Skinner's public activity, I only know him for his theories... Which are brilliant and widely accepted; unlike Dakwins' ideas. I would be shocked, utterly shocked, if an undergraduate program taught "The God Delusion" but not at all shocked if one taight "The Selfish Gene". One is a staggering work of genius, the other is poo.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Unless you can provide some justification for calling it poo, then it is just another unsubstantiated opinion.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-08-2012, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2012 11:00 PM by Red Celt.)
RE: Knocking Dawkins
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