The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
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29-10-2012, 10:10 PM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
I'm generally surprised if Christians know anything about the Bible.

They usually wave it around people they don't like to justify hating them.

Of course I am joking but the sad truth is people do use it for absurd things and know nothing of it, which truly bothers me.

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29-10-2012, 10:31 PM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
(29-10-2012 09:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 09:45 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  booo 30 is essentially the same as 2.

real 33. How much it was altered through generations of transcriptions.

Actually you could justify it. 2 AND 30.
There was no canonical description of the resurrection.

There are many instances where the followers said they said they "experienced" the "risen Lord". What Mark is saying, those statements also did NOT mean they actually saw a physical risen corpse.

Thanks for getting me off the hook Bucky LOL.

34. Yahweh is a right old bastard.
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29-10-2012, 10:35 PM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
(29-10-2012 10:31 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 09:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually you could justify it. 2 AND 30.
There was no canonical description of the resurrection.

There are many instances where the followers said they said they "experienced" the "risen Lord". What Mark is saying, those statements also did NOT mean they actually saw a physical risen corpse.

Thanks for getting me off the hook Bucky LOL.

34. Yahweh is a right old bastard.

Somebody in one of these threads (maybe you) was talking about Enoch. That's the next section of the Resurrection thread, and how the "empty tomb" fits into the "missing Enoch", and "taken (up) Elijah", traditions of the 10 "taken-up" prophets in Hebrew literature.

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29-10-2012, 10:37 PM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
35. Your mom

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29-10-2012, 11:18 PM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
Hmmm, I was going to argue with number 4, since he keeps referring to the tablets as "unseen" and "written by the hand of God." How would anyone know what was on them? And Exodus 34 was just a covenant with Moses' people... until I saw this:

34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

The covenant IS the 10 commandments. He was correct. I shall have to look into this, because this is one of those things that I will delight in as I mock Christians and their lack of Bible knowledge.

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30-10-2012, 07:38 AM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
(29-10-2012 08:55 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  That's pretty interesting stuff in the blog. There are some half-truths here, such as the description of Satan working for God (our current understanding of Satan is built from the book of Enoch rather than any canonical text) or about heaven being a place on Earth (many Christians differentiate the "heaven on Earth" as the "Millennial Kingdom").

But there was one that stuck out: that Exodus 20 doesn't contain the 10 commandments. I went back and checked that in its full context, and sure enough, there is absolutely nothing denoting that these were commandments written on the tablets or that they were the 10 anythings. The actual 10 commandments are in Exodus 34 and are rather unremarkable. I'll be sure to get this right in future discussions of the 10 commandments.
I agree. The author stretches a bit on some of those, but this of course is no different than all the stretching the Christians do in their myriad of interpretations. I too checked the accuracy of the 4th one and found it to be correct. I specifically checked a Catholic Bible because Catholics are particular about which Bible they accept and my family members that I will eventually discuss this with are Catholic.

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30-10-2012, 08:06 AM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
36. Why, when Moses comes down the mountain, he finds them worshiping a golden calf. (There is a very specific, invented, political, reason.)

37. Why Moses really smashes the two tablets.

38. Where the Golden Calf came from, and how Aaron contradicts himself, and why, about where it came from.

39. Why Aaron says "we will have a holiday to Yahweh "TOMORROW".

40. Why Aaron told the people "THIS is your god, O Israel", about the Golden Calf.

41. Why, of all people it was AARON who was seen as responsible for the Golden Calf.

42. Why early on, when scholars began to think Exodus was a myth, they noticed that "This is your God, O Israel, who brought you UP, OUT of the land of Egypt", when in fact at the time Aaron said it, it really was, and should have been "DOWN OVER" into the Sinai Desert.

(All will be revealed in my next thread. Stay tuned), Tongue

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30-10-2012, 06:56 PM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
Well, to keep everyone honest, I'm gonna go through and critique the article...

Starting with:

Quote:#1. Despite Mel Gibson’s movie, there is almost no Crucifixion account

What details is he really looking for? We definitely have 4 accounts, I'll just use the one from John:
  • Crucified between two others
  • Carried his own cross
  • Had a sign above his head naming him as Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews
  • His clothes were divided among the soldiers by lottery
  • Was given a sponge with wine vinegar
  • Died prior to having his legs broken (so they didn't break them)
  • Had his side pierced

Missing perhaps details on whether he was nailed to the cross or merely tied?

Quote:#2. There is no Resurrection of Jesus in the Bible.

What of the claims that he was seen afterward, such as John 20:24-29? Luke 24:13-32? John 21:1-23 (esp. verse 14)?

Quote:3. Jesus is Against Marriage (with anyone).

Not mentioning marriage is not the same thing as being against it. Telling his followers to abandon their families and follow him was not a statement against marriage, but a statement of the imminent end of the world, where it was far more important to spread the word than to stay with their family.

There is good reason to believe that Jesus was simply an apocalyptic prophet that thought the end was near. In that context, such statements (and many more) make a lot more sense...

Quote:4. Thou Shall Not Kill, is NOT a Commandment.

Technicality, but he's got a point.

Quote:5. The Bible is full of Raunchy Sex.

Duh, sex sells - even with religion.

Quote:6. There is no “Rapture” in the Bible.

Depending on how you interpret the drug-induced trip that is Revelation... The concept can be conveyed without the use of the word "rapture".

Quote:7. Satan is not a Bad Guy. He works for God, and Jesus wants his job!

Now that's just silly. Mind if I don't spend time on it?

Quote:8. In the Bible there is no Heaven and Hell as it is commonly understood today.

Daniel 12:2 - "Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake - some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence."

Seems to refer to eternal life vs. eternal torture to me. Beyond that, there is a lot of speculation - I don't know of any detailed account of heaven in the Bible, though there are definitely passages referring to hell as a lake of fire, etc.

Quote:9. There is no “End of the World” in the Bible.

2 Peter 3:10 - "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed [some manuscripts, will be burned up].

Seems to indicate a literal end to the sun, moon and stars at least (the "heavenly bodies"). That would be the end of earth as well...

Quote:10. There are no “original texts” of the Bible.

duh. There is no doubt that there is significant variation in the manuscripts we have of the books that make up the Bible (they weren't a compilation originally, obviously) and that we don't have the original copies.

Overall, I was disappointed. Some claims I feel were made just to be shocking, but weren't quite accurate... The couple that are accurate probably wouldn't be denied by most Christians, aside from the extent of the variations in the biblical manuscripts.

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30-10-2012, 07:05 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2012 08:28 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
(30-10-2012 06:56 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  Well, to keep everyone honest, I'm gonna go through and critique the article...

Starting with:

Quote:#1. Despite Mel Gibson’s movie, there is almost no Crucifixion account

What details is he really looking for? We definitely have 4 accounts, I'll just use the one from John:
  • Crucified between two others
  • Carried his own cross
  • Had a sign above his head naming him as Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews
  • His clothes were divided among the soldiers by lottery
  • Was given a sponge with wine vinegar
  • Died prior to having his legs broken (so they didn't break them)
  • Had his side pierced

Missing perhaps details on whether he was nailed to the cross or merely tied?

Quote:#2. There is no Resurrection of Jesus in the Bible.

What of the claims that he was seen afterward, such as John 20:24-29? Luke 24:13-32? John 21:1-23 (esp. verse 14)?

Quote:3. Jesus is Against Marriage (with anyone).

Not mentioning marriage is not the same thing as being against it. Telling his followers to abandon their families and follow him was not a statement against marriage, but a statement of the imminent end of the world, where it was far more important to spread the word than to stay with their family.

There is good reason to believe that Jesus was simply an apocalyptic prophet that thought the end was near. In that context, such statements (and many more) make a lot more sense...

Quote:4. Thou Shall Not Kill, is NOT a Commandment.

Technicality, but he's got a point.

Quote:5. The Bible is full of Raunchy Sex.

Duh, sex sells - even with religion.

Quote:6. There is no “Rapture” in the Bible.

Depending on how you interpret the drug-induced trip that is Revelation... The concept can be conveyed without the use of the word "rapture".

Quote:7. Satan is not a Bad Guy. He works for God, and Jesus wants his job!

Now that's just silly. Mind if I don't spend time on it?

Quote:8. In the Bible there is no Heaven and Hell as it is commonly understood today.

Daniel 12:2 - "Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake - some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence."

Seems to refer to eternal life vs. eternal torture to me. Beyond that, there is a lot of speculation - I don't know of any detailed account of heaven in the Bible, though there are definitely passages referring to hell as a lake of fire, etc.

Quote:9. There is no “End of the World” in the Bible.

2 Peter 3:10 - "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed [some manuscripts, will be burned up].

Seems to indicate a literal end to the sun, moon and stars at least (the "heavenly bodies"). That would be the end of earth as well...

Quote:10. There are no “original texts” of the Bible.

duh. There is no doubt that there is significant variation in the manuscripts we have of the books that make up the Bible (they weren't a compilation originally, obviously) and that we don't have the original copies.

Overall, I was disappointed. Some claims I feel were made just to be shocking, but weren't quite accurate... The couple that are accurate probably wouldn't be denied by most Christians, aside from the extent of the variations in the biblical manuscripts.

The details in every gospel are vastly different. Thus none can be trusted. The trials are different. The death is on different days.

The "claims" of resurrection" does not mean they meant that in what we think of it today. (see the "Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth" thread).
There is no resurrection in Q, or the earliest version of Mark. Thus we know the earliest Christians did not consider it important.

All the rest "is just silly". If it works for you, it works for me.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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30-10-2012, 08:08 PM
RE: The Top 10 Shocking Things Christians Don't Know about the Bible
(30-10-2012 06:56 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  
Quote:8. In the Bible there is no Heaven and Hell as it is commonly understood today.

Daniel 12:2 - "Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake - some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence."

Seems to refer to eternal life vs. eternal torture to me. Beyond that, there is a lot of speculation - I don't know of any detailed account of heaven in the Bible, though there are definitely passages referring to hell as a lake of fire, etc.

I'm pretty much in agreement with your views, but I wanted to build on this one point. The author of the blog has it right -- because Jesus was expected to return in the first century BCE, Jesus' mentions of Heaven all seem to refer to Earth. John's gospel, though, was written around 90 BCE, so it shouldn't surprise us that verses in that book talk about a kingdom in another place.

John 14:2-3: My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

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