Poll: Is torture acceptable?
This poll is closed.
Yes, we should be able to do whatever's necessary regardless of the ethical concerns or consequences 0% 0 0%
Yes, but only in specific situations where there's no viable alternative 11.54% 3 11.54%
No, it doesn't work and is morally repugnant 80.77% 21 80.77%
Other. Please explain. 7.69% 2 7.69%
Total 26 votes 100%
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The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
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01-07-2017, 06:47 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(26-01-2017 11:37 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The CIA says without a doubt, torture has saved American lives.
That's good enough for me.

So you are ok with torture, as long as it saves American lives? Looks like those lives have a different *value* than those lives of people with different passports.

Thats one of the most disgusting, immoral, inhumane things i have read for quite some time, and i have read quite some shit after i joined TTA, congratualtions.
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01-07-2017, 06:53 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(01-07-2017 06:47 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 11:37 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The CIA says without a doubt, torture has saved American lives.
That's good enough for me.

So you are ok with torture, as long as it saves American lives? Looks like those lives have a different *value* than those lives of people with different passports.

Thats one of the most disgusting, immoral, inhumane things i have read for quite some time, and i have read quite some shit after i joined TTA, congratualtions.
[Image: giphy.gif]


Thanks for reminding me of this video essay about how many American superhero movies are totalitarian power fantasies, and how the ends always justifies the means.





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01-07-2017, 07:02 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(01-07-2017 06:47 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 11:37 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The CIA says without a doubt, torture has saved American lives.
That's good enough for me.

So you are ok with torture, as long as it saves American lives? Looks like those lives have a different *value* than those lives of people with different passports.

Thats one of the most disgusting, immoral, inhumane things i have read for quite some time, and i have read quite some shit after i joined TTA, congratualtions.
[Image: giphy.gif]

Also he's apparently okay with torture to find out if it works.

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01-07-2017, 07:07 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(01-07-2017 06:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 06:47 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  So you are ok with torture, as long as it saves American lives? Looks like those lives have a different *value* than those lives of people with different passports.

Thats one of the most disgusting, immoral, inhumane things i have read for quite some time, and i have read quite some shit after i joined TTA, congratualtions.
[Image: giphy.gif]


Thanks for reminding me of this video essay about how many American superhero movies are totalitarian power fantasies, and how the ends always justifies the means.





I wouldn't say totalitarian necessarily. There's also the vigilante aspect. But vigilantism does tend to cross over with totalitarian ideas.
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01-07-2017, 07:30 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(01-07-2017 07:07 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  I wouldn't say totalitarian necessarily. There's also the vigilante aspect. But vigilantism does tend to cross over with totalitarian ideas.


The scary thing about Batman is that they have characters outright say that these things are kinda bad, scary ideas; but then they tell us it's all okay. I mean [Lucius] Fox thinks this is a terrible idea, an abomination, but shh. It's all okay. It's all okay because 'terrorists'. I mean, that's the scary thing about these movies, it's always justified. One way or another there is always a reason to say "It's okay, they had to."

"It was the Joker, they had to."

Superman had to stop [General] Zod, because Zod had weapons of mass destruction and sent scary videos to the media. You're all at risk, you're all going to die, and only Superman and the American Way™ can save you. He had to.

It's all okay, it's always worth the cost.

As much as Fox complains, it doesn't matter because Batman is vindicated, it all works. Well, the torture doesn't, but the rest of it does. The implication in The Dark Knight is that massive violations of civil liberties, by a vigilante no less, are all okay so long as you pinky-swear to tear down the system once you get what you were looking for. The message in these movies is what we really want, what America wants and needs is a vigilante system of justice where those with power are allowed to do whatever they feel they need to, regardless of the cost.

Because it's all okay, it's always worth the cost.

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01-07-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(01-07-2017 07:30 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The scary thing about Batman...

I think that scariest or most stupid thing about Batman is his no killing rule. Thousands more will die? Life's tough at least one violent clown will have clean consciousness.

I don't ordinarily believe in violence as best problem solver, but when you have someone who is only little better version of Lavrentiy Beria in your metaphorical gun sight you shoot. Batman deem himself above the law yet instead of permanently ending the threat he prefer to "contain" it so he could play hero again, when said threat escape again.

And yes I know that such rule is convenient for writers. No need to create new villains when old ones still draw breath and can be brought to play - escape from Arkham - whenever it is needed.

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08-07-2017, 07:23 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
I can only think of one reason where I believe torture is acceptable, which would be to discover the location of a nuclear/radiological
biological or chemical weapon that is an imminent threat.
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08-07-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(08-07-2017 07:23 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I can only think of one reason where I believe torture is acceptable, which would be to discover the location of a nuclear/radiological
biological or chemical weapon that is an imminent threat.

The problem, is that you would discover more easily and more quickly that information by using non-violent interrogation method and detention condition than with torture. Torture is really shitty when what you want to obtain is the truth.

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08-07-2017, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 10:35 AM by adey67.)
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
Ki
(08-07-2017 10:11 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 07:23 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I can only think of one reason where I believe torture is acceptable, which would be to discover the location of a nuclear/radiological
biological or chemical weapon that is an imminent threat.

The problem, is that you would discover more easily and more quickly that information by using non-violent interrogation method and detention condition than with torture. Torture is really shitty when what you want to obtain is the truth.

The only problem with conventional interrogation is if the situation is time critical. Yes start with the conventional but in some circumstances it maybe necessary to move to the erm, more creative. Wink I don't believe conventional is always quicker, does anyone have any sources or citations ? It would be interesting to know for sure. The Israelis are rumoured to have achieved rapid success with waterboarding.
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08-07-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: The Torture Debate - Yes, yes with caveats, or no?
(08-07-2017 10:28 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Ki
(08-07-2017 10:11 AM)epronovost Wrote:  The problem, is that you would discover more easily and more quickly that information by using non-violent interrogation method and detention condition than with torture. Torture is really shitty when what you want to obtain is the truth.

The only problem with conventional interrogation is if the situation is time critical. Yes start with the conventional but in some circumstances it maybe necessary to move to the erm, more creative. Wink

Yes, because we all know that people never lie under torture simply to make the pain stop.
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