The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
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12-08-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 02:06 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 02:01 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  So let the thread die, if all it's become is pointless repetition.

Do you honestly believe that theists like Godexists and Blowme actually want these threads to die?

Does it matter?

Post the rebuttal. If they just repeat themselves, make it known that you have already answered their questions and leave them to their echo chamber. People are capable of reading back in a thread to find the answers they're looking for, and honestly, a thread which consists entirely of someone like Godexists posting the same drivel over and over doesn't do any harm to our reputation - or any good to his.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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12-08-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 05:27 AM)Godexists Wrote:  HOW ABOUT YOU PLAY KINDERGARDEN SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND STOP HIJACKING MY TOPIC WITH EXCHANGE OF PERSONAL INSULTS ?

Oh really ? Have you contributed to TTA ? It's not "your topic" The only reason you posted it here, is to preach at us, idiot. Creationism is the playground of fools.

Go fuck yourself, and take your idiotic non-scientific spam-garbage somewhere else.

And I mean that in the most charitable way possible. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-08-2015, 02:43 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
This irreducibly complex miracle machine you tout is not the god in Genesis, so which god are you advocating for? Because you can't pry the biblical god out of this miracle machine you're touting.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-08-2015, 02:50 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 02:12 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Especially when the issue it tries to confront is so incredibly simplistic. "What caused the Big Bang?" is a valid question, but the video tries to make the leap from "we don't know"* to "a wizard did it", which is fallacious.

I didn't get past the meta physical wrestlers bit first time. Then I skipped through it and noticed the production and acting was even worse. But after reading your post I decided to revisit it.

Speaking to GodExists now ...

"In the beginning there was matter"

No there wasn't. Matter condensed out of energy after the Big Bang.

"a highly ordered expansion?" Chaos is by definition not organised.

"Matter is eternal" ? Energy is eternal. I think they demonstrated 70 years ago over Nagasaki and Hiroshima that matter is not eternal.

OK, now I'm going to give up on the video (again) after 1:45. Honestly, this is more of an endurance test than the Star Wars holiday special. At least I made it past the Wookie father beating off to the holographic dancer.

If you're going to spoof something, at least know what you're spoofing. But then it doesn't matter to you does it GodExists? You don't actually care about the truth. Your audience don't either. You just care about believing what you want to believe and trying to get more people to believe the same way. It doesn't matter if it's correct or not.

It's lying for Jesus.
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12-08-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 02:50 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  "In the beginning there was matter"

No there wasn't. Matter condensed out of energy after the Big Bang.

In the beginning
There was void
The Face moved over
Then there was NOISE

- Clutch, "The Face"

...Hey, it's not scientifically accurate either, but at least it's heavy as fuck.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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12-08-2015, 03:10 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Martin 'Marty' McFly - "Great scott!"

Dr. Emmett Brown - "I know, this is heavy."

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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12-08-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 03:10 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Martin 'Marty' McFly - "Great scott!"

Dr. Emmett Brown - "I know, this is heavy."

[Image: 1373-1335217769.jpg?1335217769]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-08-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 02:12 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 02:02 PM)Godexists Wrote:  https://vimeo.com/96489508#at=2

This is the same issue as posting walls of text. It's just spam.

A link to a video does nothing. Tell us what your thoughts on the video are, or at least point to some salient issues that it raises. No one wants to sit there and watch such an astonishingly amateur production just because you can't be bothered to make your own argument.

Especially when the issue it tries to confront is so incredibly simplistic. "What caused the Big Bang?" is a valid question, but the video tries to make the leap from "we don't know"* to "a wizard did it", which is fallacious.

I turned off the video there, because it's some of the cringiest acting I've ever seen. If there's anything else worth addressing in it, you'll have to actually tell us.

*: Which would more accurately be "we don't know, but there's no evidence that it needed a cause at all, since time and therefore cause-effect relationships did not necessarily exist prior to the event, let alone that the cause was a god of any sort". I'm also fairly certain that research in various fields of quantum mechanics has touched on possible reasons for matter arising out of quantum fluctuations or something similar, but I am not a quantum mechanics expert, so I'll leave it at that, because I haven't spent thirty years studying the stuff and would therefore be talking out of my ass.

Limited causal alternatives for origins

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...or-origins

Its not justified to claim " we don't know ", when a limited range of alternatives and options are available. In regard our our existence, there are just and exactly 3, namely:

chance
design
physical necessity.

since chance, and physical necessity won't cut the cake, the best explanation for our existence is design.


Pretend you wake up in the morning and there's a birthday cake sitting on your kitchen table, and it just happens to be your birthday. What do you think? You ask yourself, "Where did this cake come from?" There are only a couple of possibilities, theoretically. It could have just materialized out of nowhere on your kitchen table coincidentally on your birthday. It could have just "poofed" into existence. I guess that would be in the realm of theoretic possibilities. Or maybe a great, hot, wet wind blew through your neighbor's kitchen gathering up a bunch of ingredients and kind of accidentally baked a cake that landed on your table. The fact that it happened on your birthday is a coincidence. I guess that would be "possible" too. The cake could have come out of nowhere, or could have just assembled itself by chance. Or the other alternative would be that a person baked the cake for you and dropped it off in the middle of the night.

Now here's the trick. When faced with limited options you don't have the liberty not to believe something. If you reject the idea that somebody baked the cake for you, you must assert in its place that the cake either materialized out of nothing or formed itself by accident. When you reject one option you are asserting an alternate option when all the options are clear.

Do you see that? When you are faced with just a limited number of choices, if you reject one choice you've got to opt for one of those that remains. So the question is, which option makes most sense?


http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/201303/2...hiests.cfm

The Christian Geneticist Francis Collins of Human Genome Project fame said he was an agnostic in college. Yet he confesses that his “I don’t know” was more an “I don’t want to know” attitude — a “willful blindness.”11 This agnosticism eventually gave way to outright atheism — although Collins would later come to faith in Christ. He began reading C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity, and Collins realized his own antireligious constructs were “those of a schoolboy.”12

Because the existence of God is a massively important topic, we cannot afford not to pay attention — especially in an age of so many diversions. Philosopher Tom Morris points out that sports, TV, restaurants, concerts, cars, billiards, and a thousand other activities can divert us from the ultimate issues of life. As a result, we don’t “tune into” God. And when a crisis hits (death, hospitalization, natural disaster), we are not really in the best condition to process and make accurate judgments about those deep questions.13 The person who says, “I do not know if God exists,” may have chosen to live by diversions and distractions and thus to ignore God. This is not an innocent ignorance; this ignorance is the result of our neglecting our duty.

So the theist, atheist, and militant (ornery) agnostic all bear a burden of proof; the theist does not have a heavier burden since all claim to know something. Furthermore, even the alleged ordinary agnostic still is not off the hook. For one thing, one cannot remain neutral all his life; he will make commitments or hold beliefs all along the way that reflect either an atheistic or theistic worldview. He is either going to be a practical atheist or practical theist (or a mixture of the two) in some fashion throughout his life. But he can’t straddle the fence for long. Also, the ordinary agnostic may say, “I do not know,” but this often means “I do not care” — the view of an “apatheist.” Refusing to seek out whether God exists or not; refusing to humble oneself to seek whatever light about God is available; living a life of distractions rather than thoughtfully reflecting about one’s meaning, purpose, or destiny leaves one culpable in his ignorance, not innocent.
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12-08-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
Pretty sure you just 'False equivocated" there... but I am probably wrong.

I'll let some one with more time and know how deflate your over baked above post. Tongue
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12-08-2015, 05:15 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2015 05:36 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The Transport of Proteins into Mitochondria is a irreducible complex system
(12-08-2015 04:37 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Because the existence of God is a massively important topic, we cannot afford not to pay attention —

No it's not. Not only is it not important, it is practically irrelevant.

(12-08-2015 04:37 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Its not justified to claim " we don't know ", when a limited range of alternatives and options are available.

Sure it is. What if all the options are equiprobable?

(12-08-2015 04:37 PM)Godexists Wrote:  In regard our our existence, there are just and exactly 3, namely:

chance
design
physical necessity.

since chance, and physical necessity won't cut the cake, the best explanation for our existence is design.

Merely saying that chance and physical necessity "won't cut the cake" doesn't cut the cake.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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